I want to talk about the economy
I’m trying to move away from these political discussions, but people here don’t seem to want to do that. I suppose I’ve just come to the conclusion that Kibaki is not going to resign, they will be no coalition government (can anyone honestly see Kibaki and Raila working together?) and Raila is just going to have to fight it out in parliament. ( I understand politics does affect the economy and the two are inter-connected, but at this point, I think the private sector in Kenya is just going to have to find a way to ignore these politicians and try to sort out their own problems). The only good thing here is that Kibaki does not interfere with the private sector ala Moi. If he did, it would really create a disaster.
And guess what? Neither Kibaki nor Raila has to work (they are both indepenedently wealthy and maybe people should start ignoring both of these men). The blogger coldtusker had a nice summary on the economic problems that the country may face in the coming five years, but I want to open up this space to you (especially if you are based in Kenya).
The key question is how much impact do you think this political mess will have on your bottom line? Let’s be honest here: if you are a kikuyu would you ever open a business in Eldoret or Kisumu again?
As I was thinking about this article, I realized that the same irritation I have for Kenya’s Asian’s is the same irritation (x10) that many Kenyans have for the Kikuyu’s right now. I think Kenya’s Asian community is insular, I think they’re arrogant, I think they got plenty of economic advantages from the British during colonialism, I think they’re racist, I don’t like the way they treat their African workers, etc, etc….{and I suppose if I flipped it around, these are the same reasons many would use to justify their anger against Kikuyu’s).
And you know what else? I was watching some of those youtube video’s of the rioting in Kisumu and I could swear that many of those Indian’s were not native born Kenyans (just by listening to their accents, you could tell that these guys had been shipped in straight from India). A Kenyan would never be able to open up a business in India. Never. Who is giving these people work visas?
Over to you….
KE,
As much as Indians in kenya are viewed or view themselves as natural born businessmen, I find that to be nothing further from the truth.
Indians in kenya ARE NOT GOOD BUSINESSMEN nor do they Have as much business skill as perceived.
I know some people are really wondering how I said that.
It all starts during colonialism. When Indians were brought to kenya, people’s economic activities were limited by their race.
Commerce wa sthe option open and available to most indians once the railway line was done. They did not want to go back to india so they opted to stay home.
If you’re a kenyan abroad, you’ll notice that certain jobs are done by people from certain countries. For example, here in the U.S. Alot of kenyans venture into the healthcare field on arrival and it’s not by choice, it’s coz that is what is available to them at that time.
This does not mean that kenyans are the best nurse’s aides or they love their job so much . No way, infact most kenyans hate / loathe working as nurse’s Aide’s but they suck it up and get the job done.
Same thing with indians in kenya. Commerce was the avenue open to them and they left it to thei kids once they died. This did notmake them good businessmen, just businessmen.
When was the last time you went to an indian owned business in kenya and had apleasnt customer service experience ? did u purchase a product and read the receipt saying that “goods once purchased are not returnable ” even if they have defects….
why do we “hate” shopping in indian businesses so much?
I was surprised to learn that a great number of indians in kenya were supporting ODM. I was surprised coz I was of the opinion that Business in kenya loves kibaki and since most indians are in business they must have noticed a much improved business climate.
However, I learnt that this “improved business climate” under kibaki, basically meant that whoever had an idea and resources could start his / her business and compete in the marketplace.
This meant alot of new businesses were created and old ones were expanding and bomming, bringing much unwanted competition to the indian dominated firms.
and to top it off the competition was brought by indegenous i.e. black kenyans, a move that was not welcome.At the same time, during kibaki’s gvt, everyone and their mother has been forced to pay their share of Tax, somnething very foreign to indian businesses.
During the MOI era, indian businesses were very adept at escaping taxes, no wonder they were in such an uproaor over the Tax registers being installed.
Even a retail giant like Nakumatt had not being paying it’s fair share of taxes.So with an ODM Win, Indians felt that it would be like the days of old under the MOI government..but that did not happen.
As the economy grows and opens up, these indians will be forced to compete with black kenyans and foreigners entering our vibrant market.
http://www.bdafrica.com/index......temid=5813
Vast disgusting generalizations is all that your statements are. You are truly a hateful person, and it is people like you who are thorns in the rose that is our country. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting such ridiculous blogs at a time when the country needs some reasonable thinking rather than hateful and inciteful messages. Gross!
As i kenyan, i beleive we need to unlearn some things and learn other things, that would probably be better prepared to face life. I voted, and that was my democratic right, as all other dear kenyans. However, lets be frank, The rigging was done by either sides. And now its a question of who is the loudest versus who has power, and who gets hurt – The poor kenyan. The only problem i have is that at the end of chaos will open up litigations that will send many behind bars, and others to the hangmans noose. Some areas will be economically depressed while others will fluorish and the differences in Economic status will widen. This will not affect Kibaki and raila. They are too rich, and their sons are safe and heavily guarded. If any of these was a patriot, they would send their sons and daughters. Instead they now fly citing insecurity. To be sincere the future is not orange. Deep wounds have been opened, and we must be prepared to pay the price. Whether we are Pro ODM or pro PNU/GNU. A mothern whose son was hacked will not forget. An executive whose brother was hacked will not forget,And if we have problems with the rich, honestly some have worked hard for what they own. Its all in the mind. If we take a hardworking man in mathare and give him 15 years, it could be like Muthaiga. Lets think harder than what the politicians tell us. A small investment in a book like “The Richest Man in Babylon”-by George S. Clarson would make us know better on how to make wealth. Let us learn from one another and not Kill one another. There will either be no investments if theyre killed or somebody else will fill the Gap, maybe a White “Kikuyu”. Finally Both Kibaki and Raila should talk and agree. Otherwise,dissolve the whole parliament and let us vote again. I will fly into the country to vote. I may not be suffering, but all Kenyans are my brothers and sisters. And the murderers should be sent to court and let the Law come in full force, including corrupted returnng officers and E.C officials. And the leaders of Tribal Armies- They should burn in Hell!
Hey KE,
Your writeup is not justified but am glad you finally brought it up. It was just a matter of time before the asian equation was finally brought into the political mess.
I’m a kenyan asian, born and bred and kenya is home and can tell you that as kenyans we also face the same problems just as anyone else.
Lack of employment oppurtunities, lack of any state support, lack of ownership of land, ” africanization policy” in the government since independence, frequent targets of racial hate and un-rest.
So what other options do the kenyan asians have to survive and make a living, besides borrowing money to startup businesses? Which asians have been employed in the entire government sector, since the africanization policies started after independence ?
By the way, for those goodwill asians who can read this blog, remember that your goodwill, time spent, donations towards all displaced kenyans at jamuhuri park, or in nakuru or at other IDPs’, your good deeds and humanity will never be recognised by kenyans except the divine creator. This is what we have always lived with but somehow we always find it deep down in our hearts to help……
The truth is finally out, thanks to KE.
Peace my friends.
Asante Sana.
Mars,
Why was my piece not justified? I think it’s better for all kenyans to air out their stereotypes about different groups in an honest way as opposed to pretending they don’t exist and then feigning shock when we get violent outbursts like we are seeing in the RV.
I was very much hoping a Kenyan of Indian descent would read this piece because I have loads of questions for you. I suppose I don’t understand how a community can live in a country for almost 100 years (you were brought there in the 1800′s) and still find it difficult to embrace the country as their own. This is very different from the Indians I’ve met from places like Trinidad and Jamaica (these one’s are totally integrated, have inter-married and consider themselves to be fully carribbean).
And the truth is, I’ve had very bad experiences at Indian owned businesses in Kenya (they’re just not pleasant!). An example – when I went to change my travellers checks at a forex bureau in Muthaiga. A white woman ahead of me was taken care of in exactly 2 minutes. When it was my turn, I was interrogated for a good 30 minutes! I was using a foreign passport, but I still had a very Kikuyu name and the owner actually came out of his office to interrogate me and started asking me all sorts of strange questions. Had it not been for my cousin who was with me at the time, I would have walked out and told him to go fuck himself.
Do you have any African friends? because I have no Indian friends, even though I went to school with many of them.
Simba:
If you are grossed out by this piece, then I suggest you stop reading not just the other pieces, but the comments as well (because you’ll actually start gagging and you may even choke and God knows what else might happen to you).
However, throught it all, you will get the unvarnished truth from all sides of the tribal divide that make up this artificial country called “Kenya”(although you may have to hold your nose while your reading it all).
Hey KE,
With respect to your bad experiences, I have travelled quite a lot and can tell you that BUSINESS PEOPLE in a lot of other countries too, including the developed ones have such arrogances in them.
Sometimes I can get bad service due to being different in colour or even religion. However, I always leave that attitude to ignorant cultures who treat people differently. They are not worth even giving any attention to….as i usually do, TAKE MY BUSINESS ELSEWHERE.
As to having friends, I have plenty across kenya, some who are very close and suffering….Strangely, I’ve never looked at them as “africans” but as my buddies…
With regard to inter-marriage or for that matter marriage in general, this is a very personal decision. Whether inter-marrige of race or religions, this is decision made by individuals or influenced by parents. I guess if one fancies the other strongly enough, then there is no barrier ( race, religion ) to stop it from happening.
Why was your piece not justifed? I respect your opinion but we have to stop generalising tribes or races. Murderers, rapists and pretenders have generalised kenyans and destroyed their lives….the rest you all know.
Have a peaceful day.
KE: Thanks for the “link”
OK, whatcha smoking? Get off your “asian” diatribe!!! You are acting like the African-Americans in the USA. In the next 20 years, I think the Hispanics will be far more powerful “financial” group as they work hard & have their own businesses, however small. Yes, the landscaper is an entrepreneur.
In the USA… (u live in NYC, si?)… many/most gas stations are run by Indians… I came across Asians of all hues (Indians, Chinese, Koreans) running MOST of the “small” businesses. Whether it was in CA, NY, NJ, IL, DC… you name it. Even a visit to Las Vegas had the gas stations being run (owned?) by the Indians. BTW, these are 24 hr locations.
BTW, the richest Indians (Ambani brothers) are worth far more than most African countries’ GDP. There are at least 20 Indians among the top 100 billionaires in the world. There is not a SINGLE “black” African. Perhaps the thieves might be among them. I want a clean guy ala Mo Ibrahim of Celtel.
There are others like Shaw (lady in biotech), the brothers behind Ranbaxy, Birlas. Reading businessweek online is a revelation. Apparently, Tata is introducing a $2,500 (+taxes) car. Kenya could not produce 1 car that could even start at a NATIONAL function.
Oh, did I mention the medical personnel in the USA. I think the UK is similar. The Indians (& Jews & Chinese) dominate the medical field. I have heard similar stories of Dubai & the mid-east.
Dare I even go into engineering?
BTW, ur a kikuyu… equity bank is a kikuyu bank… erm, I know… the teller, supervisor, manager at most branches are kikuyu or GEMA. Of course, the board is mainly kikuyu as is the MD & chairman.
Now… did you know they (yes, this bunch of hard-core kikuyus) use an Indian “banking software”… Now, this is a group who could have financed a kikuyu (or african-led) software house but no… they went for the Indian one… go figure!
Oh, BTW… one moment u say… I wanna talk about the economy and then u launch into hate speech…
You almost sound like Raila to me! I think you are a closet Raila supporter!!!
Coldtusker:
I was not talking about Indians in India. I’ve had many articles on them on this board and they are very impressive; more power to them. I was talking about Indians in Kenya who’ve been there since the 1800′s and who seem to have voluntarily chosen to “disconnect” themselves from their own country and who live very insular lives. I would like to visit a Hindu temple in Nairobi, but I doubt they’d let me pass the gates!
I think your analysis of the U.S. economy is not quite right. These small mom & pop shops/businesses are not the real engines of the u.s. economy. The u.s. economy is driven by innovation, which is seen in companies like microsoft, google, yahoo, etc, etc and it’s banking sector with companies like citibank, goldman, etc, etc (they’re in trouble now, but thats’ a story for a different day).
And yes, I do want to talk about the economy. so, if we could focus on that, I’d very much appreciate.
btw – you’ve had a gripe with equity ever since that company was founded (I remember you complaining that only Kikuyu’s could get loans – and now look…they are still going to open 2 more branches in Kisumu).
Mars:
).
I think you are an exception to this general rule. Are you Goan? they tend to be a little more open (eek…there goes another stereotype
Actually… I believe you can visit almost any Hindu temple in Kenya… I think the only restrictions are during some festivals & certain sanctums similar to Catholic Churches.
Regarding equity bank… maybe I might get lucky IF & WHEN they open in Kisumu. Also… will they only lend to kikuyus/GEMA who are in Kisumu to help rebuild GEMA businesses?
BTW, do you know “intimidating” it is when MOST of the customers & staff speak (not kiswahili or english) but something else that you (or rather I) do not understand.
I am a fan of the mid-sized banks who ARE pricier but offer great service. The big banks are well big. They are for the corporations.
BTW… innovation comes in many forms. You miss my point… The USA thrives (even with the current problems) coz commerce is relatively free.
Kibaki for all the good he did let GRAND CORRUPTION thrive. We have a common admiration for Singapore’s Lee Kuan Yew. No shit. Have you been to Singapore? Its worth a visit. BTW, erm, LOTS of Indians there too. Their prez – who has oversight powers – is also an Indian.
Answer me this. Why did kibz (1) not clamp down on Anglo-fleecing schemes? (2) not hang the culprits? (3) tolerate (& empower) the corrupt elements in his government?
SIMBA,
As KE Said, this is not a PG 13 Forum , but a place where you’ll get unvarnished truth.
I actually think you are the one with generilisations, you did not counter any specific point …
MARS,
It’s good you brought your input into this discussion, better yet coz you are a Kenyan Asian.
However, some things you said…….you know very well that it’s wishful thinking to say that an Indian can marry a black kenyan and there’ll be no barriers….that thing of real love will conquer all and trancend the indian/ kenyan relation does not work in kenya, hata wewe unajua.
To Support KE on his point, I’ve been astounded by the number of indian jamaicans and Trinidad peeps I’ve met in the U.S. I was more surprised when I met chinese Jamaicans. You ever met a chinese guy who only speaks patwa ?
Apparently, the chinese in jamaica were also brought as workers by the Brits in the late 1800′s and many of them opted to stay on the island.
They intermarried and FULLY Intergrated into jamaican culture with language and all.
I’m still surprised to see kenyan indians who speak with thick heavy inidan accents. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that but how do u speak with a indian accent yet you’ve been in kenya for 4 generations ?
I Think it just shows that the indians in kenya DO NOT Assimilate and that’s why they build their own schools and take their kids there.
I went to school with some indians but I can’t say I have any indian friends.
The Arab community in kenya did a much better job in assimilating. They speak the language- both english and swahili yet they still maintain their arabic culture and language.
Even Richard Leakey is more “kenyan” than most indians. At least he involves himself in the process instead of just hushing up and compalining how” bad things have become ” in the background.
I read an article about him and I like that he took all his kids to kenyan schools..yaani 8-4-4 and encouraged his kids to fully intergrate coz kenya was their counrty, it would never re-vert to white rule again, so to him, it would ebenfit his daughters if they established connections from an early age.
I think It’s good to travel far and wide. The Kenyan Indian issue had never really bothered me, I just assumed they were all evil. However, when I came to the U.S. and met people from all sorts of countries, I looked at the kenyan indian question and begun wondering a whole lot.
and just like KE Said, how do you live in a country for over 100 years, yet you don’t assimilate ? your brethren did it in the carribean
But I’d also give credit to some really patriotic kenyan indians like Gama Pinto and Davinder Sikand.
As KE said, I also think the Goan community does a better job of assimilating than the rest.
MARS over to you
coldtusker:
The founders of Equity bank would not have ventured into kisumu at this time if they were not interesting in lending to Luo’s. Business is business and money is money. Why would you be intimidated by people speaking in Kikuyu when you know very well that they can switch into English or Swahili if need be? Most Kenyans are tri-lingual. You tell them you are not Kikuyu, they’ll speak to you in English!
I have said many times that Kibaki is not an angel and he did in fact make many, many mistakes. He’s aloof, he’s too old, he’s many things. But, but, but, he did jumpstart the economy and I do understand that Kenya’s complex problems will not be solved in 5 or even 10 years
Kibaki is not going to be kenya’s savior (he is simply laying the groundwork and I don’t think Kenya will get a “good” president until somewhere around 2030 when a whole new generation takes over).
I also believe that part of Raila’s problem is his impatience. He expects change instantly and in his world of theory, change may seem easy to implement, but not so in the real world. And the post-election violence completely turned me away from Raila Odinga and opened my eyes to a side of the Kalenjins I never knew existed. So, now…I want Kibaki to remain in office so that he can quell the violence and go after it’s planners. We can “talk” about peace in 2012.
COLD TUSKER,
You know the Nazi strategy of ” repeat a lie many times till it becomes believable” ?
I think that’s the case in kenya. The Generic outcry of “grand corruption” under Kibaki has been repeated so many times that you can’t read about Kibaki’s administration without reading about Corruption.
The fact of the matter is that Under Kibaki’s administration, no major scandal has occurred.
I know you’ll be screaming “ANGLO-LEASING” But the anglo leasing thing is tired now, honestly. These contracts were entered during the MOI Regime and that’s what they were, contracts- which have to be followed.
When kibz came in, there was alot of housecleaning that had to be done and this was one of them, it was not started by kibz administration but by the former MOI regime.
You have not heard of any scandal under Kimunya. The government was reconized by the Kennndy school of government at Harvard University. The recognition was for the improvements in service dlivery that had been done.
Kibaki made his senior guys sign perfromance contratcs which basically means, you don’t perfrom, you are out. Minister Akaranga, did a spectacular job at the Public service ministry and culminated by holding a show across kenya where the government employees responded to citizens questions about service delivery. A first in kenya.
Even in the U.S. The variuos local, state and fedral gvts don’t hold such events.
Equity is a success and when u are successful u get alot of attention both good and bad. Offcourse there’s gripes from the big banks and form other kenyans who perceive equity to be a kikuyu success story.
It won’t help hating on ur brother coz of his success. you should actually learn from him and one day you”ll do the same or even better. Your claims about Equity being a kikuyu bank are filled with some hateration, but it’s ok, it’s allowed when u are successful.
The truth is the kibaki government is the best administration kenya has ever had since independence. I know people will hate on this but it’s true.
Would you prefer we could back to the MOI days or Kenyatta days ?
I hope you don’t say kenyatta days coz if you do and your name isn’t kamau, mwangi, njeri, basi utaambulia patupu.
I really am glad Raila did not come in. He has a sweet tongue to tell u what you want to hear but his history and his record speaks volumes.
KE: erm…
“I don’t think Kenya will get a “good” president until somewhere around 2030 when a whole new generation takes over”
I will not wait for 22 years… and kalonzo is not my idea of a good prez… u never addressed the questions… kibz was the same idiot who spoke of razors & mugumo trees. A leopard does not change its spots.
My beef with him him is his sleeping with dan moi to forward a corrupt agenda. We all make mistakes. Don’t repeat them.
kenyatta fucked Oginga Odinga, Murumbi (no whiff of corruption even surrounded him). Luminaries like Pinto, Mboya (well, he was in cahoots with kenyatta until he was not needed) & Kaggia were killed or dispensed with.
BTW, jomo “thieving” kenyatta was a thief. Simple as that. As I have said many times before… Kenya got jomo, Singapore got LKY. Unlucky Kenyans.
raila was betrayed by kibz (2002 MoU). Twice bitten…
Raila’s leadership skills are so wanting that even his own Dad could not trust him.
His Dad the late Jaramogi left FORD In the capable hands of Kijana Wamalwa.
He knew his son Raila well was not capable of leading well.
I still wonder how Raila escapes the scrutiny of being Langata MP For 15 years and what has he done about Kibera ?
The poor people of Kibera have blind loyalty to him and maybe that’s why they are in the state they are in….not able to see him for who he really is.
tHEY REJOICE WHEN Raila comes to see them in his Hummer , they rejoice as if it’s “theirs” yet they can’t see the irony of their extreeme poverty and his opulence…..kweli as someone says, let the sleeping dogs lie..wajinga ni wale wale.
CT:
I don’t think you’ll find any Kikuyu who would deny that Kenyatta was a thief. But guess what? Raila is also a thief, so is Ruto and Moi and Kibaki and the whole lot. You think Raila is an angel? politics is a blood sport and it attracts blood hounds (& in Africa, the word “blood” and “politics” are defined literally).
KE: Well… then we need someone who was NEVER in kanu (as argued earlier…).
I rooted – in my blog – for folks like Titus Naikuni, Manu Chandaria, Gerald Mahinfda, etc who are businessmen first.
Many took exception… not you… to the idea of “businessmen” who have no experience in politics.
Mzeiya: On one side you go off on an illogical rant about Indians. Then you talk sensibly of not going back to the days of kenyatta & moi. BTW, I hate moi with a passion.
What kibz has allowed in the past 3 weeks has really brought me down. His hardliners have taken over. Using live bullets in Kisumu (note that few deaths in Nairobi’s CBD were using live bullets) & Kibera.
And kibz’ goebbels… alfie mutua keeps on whining about kufuor here for tea (idiot… who flies 6 hours for a cup of tea!!!)… how kibz won, etc is part of the “psychological” warfare.
Even if kibz won fair why was there pressure from PNU & ODM-K to announce the results?
Why were ALL the other media houses (except KBC) removed from KICC by the GSU when kivuitu announced the results?
Why did kibz unilaterally appoint 15 commissioners WITHOUT consulting the opposition unlike 1997?
kibz was never part of a “liberation”. He was bribed by moi to break up matiba’s strong FORD in 1992. kibaki broke the kikuyu vote in 1992 & kibz used kalonzo to take the kamba vote out of ODM.
Why did kibz say nothing when GANGSTERS – mzeiya, erm… please explain the armenians to me – raided The Standard. We saw the fiasco on telly. And we have roocy kibz running around slapping people in PJs.
I met an businessman in another (unnamed) African country. Basically, he said… “If she had slapped me, I would have slapped her twice. I am a Man. They could shoot me afterwards but I would never take an insult like that.”
It was not the “Man” part but the injustice. roocy invades Nation Centre. WTF, does she think the cameraman would do? This is news. Of course, he films it… Then she slaps him. And kibz’ consiglierie (amos wanko)enters into a nolle prosequi. Basically… it means kibz cares more about his, his cronies & wifes shenanigans than JUSTICE.
Good morning all.
My point earlier was about NOT generalizing the issues but it seems there will be another time to discuss this. I’ll be available….
Wewe Mzeiya, “I just assumed they were all evil” is a vicious line. Are you really in kenya to see how much loss of life, property damage and tribal segregation has taken place since the 29th of Dec, all because of that line?
Regarding KE’s point about layoffs and economy : this is already happening. We have just managed yesterday to find temp jobs with IT companies for two of my friends. I also know a lot of other kenyans are helping out as much.
The economical impact is starting to hit a lot of kenyans, especially those those who work for or operate companies that depend on imports. The shilling is losing value every day.
Our real answer and true hope lies with the kenyan leaders who now have the opportunity to decide whether we grow economically as a power house in africa or dis-integrate…. God help us..
Peace .
Asante sana.
I am always astounded by the ignorance in Kenyans, especially those of the nominal middle class. The reason why Kenyan Indians do not mix with the little people is the same reason why the Luos on KenyaImagine are all ardent opponents of Railaism, they have a different set of interests, a different social circle, a different world-view than the lower classes.
I point these people out because the likes of Oyudo, Ogot, Opoti and so on are the most stridently anti-ODM people I have ever met, more than any Kikuyu you will ever meet. It is this, class, education and upbringing and not anything else that sets people apart in this time. Remember the neo-con, Jewish Paul Wolfowitz had a Muslim g/f he was willing to go to extreme ends for? I am myself Somali and I cannot stand ODM, I cannot stand the idea that Muslims would want to sign an MoU with a politician, let alone a charlatan like Raila, and I definitely do not want to Sharia law or shitty NAMLEF anywhere near me.
Now it seems to me that in Kenyan society, our get-rich quick schemes and corruption result in scenarios where you have people who are wealthy, but whose minds (like Raila’s, Ntimama’s or Gumo’s ) still belong in the slums. The attitudes in the ODM toward business, investment, job and wealth creation are exactly the same as you would expect to find at a fishing jetty somewhere in Otieno Kajwang’s constituency, are Kikuyus, Kisiis, Asians or Somalis forcing themselves on Kisumu or are they filling roles the ‘natives’ refuse or unable to take up? Hell, we know you hate us, it is hard enough as it is being in your midst. And it is not just with politics, I keep meeting religious nuts from wealthy homes, I keep meeting xenophobic Kenyans from good homes (like KE, by the way I really thought the Kikuyu middle-class did not have a chip on its shoulder (shock on me!!!)). I keep meeting upper-middle class Kenyans who are homophobic, who believe in the miracles of Jesus, the world was built in six days, who believe Muslims are terrorists and so on), in a word, it seems to me that class and money are in Kenya very different things. Because many of our parents / grandparents are thieves we have not been civilised over time, we have money and education but have not imbibed any class. This is not to say anything for the atavistic nature of Kenyan politics, I mean compare Raila to his father, how could such a sagacious old man have such a child? Really what idea has this lout ever spawned? Compare Uhuru to his father, or even Moi fils to the second president! Our parents brought up ideas, we read our Bibles and Q’urans, close our eyes and pray hard ( cf. Le Roi Jones’ Perface to a 20 volume suicide note -surprise at finding his daughter praying). Seems that is what passes for culture in Kenya today, praying)
Now, if I may end by pointing at the lies in the posts above. First Caribbean society is extremely stratified, and this even more than anything you could find in Kenya. I have been there, to many of the islands, and one of the things that becomes very quickly clear is that there is very little mixing. You can never mix oil with water, if an Indian girl’s family is conservative it will not admit a black partner for their child. You try marry a Somali girl, try ask out a white Kenyan, even a Kisii (perhaps especially a Kisii) and you may very well have the same treatment. Have you tried to get with an Adventist girl, or with a Muslim? I certainly do not think that I would allow my sisters to be with someone like ColdTusker, and neither would I have the slightest interest in KE,
Is this even a bad thing?
Even American high-tech is perhaps 60% Indian, in the UK at least 50% of all retail trade is Indian, and this dominance, those dirty Indians will also ‘takeover’ the USA.
You could get mistreated anywhere in Kenya, but especially in places where there is a cultural difference. You will find this especially at the Coast or when you deal with Cushitic peoples.
Mars,
As you have correctly pointed out, 100 years of the most altruistic charity will not be enough to win over the savages. Not a million Gurdwaras, not endless free clinics. Am I angry, or am I dissembling? Was this even coherent?
Sijui,
We miss you on this side of reason. Do you not feel out of place in the ODM?
Amir Ibrahim
kenyaimagine.com
hey ALL, FYI
here’s what the Human rights watch says :
Kenya: Opposition Officials Helped Plan Rift Valley Violence
http://hrw.org/english/docs/20.....a17859.htm
Amir, If I may…
hey, relax. We all must understand that everyone has been traumatized ( others much much more than some ) by what has happened in kenya, so people are letting off steam….. the correct way. And that it is to dialogue issues that have affected them directly on indirectly.
There are no immediate fixes to all the problems that each one has but I believe the priority at the moment for all kenyans is to really find a solution to the madness. There must be a push and way forward to HEAL the divide, else this whole affair in not over for generations.
Ladies, Gents : As a start, lets put our cultural differences aside and really put pressure on the leaders to comeup with the solution to heal kenya.
Peace.
[...] political discussions and wants to talk about the economy: I’m trying to move away from these political discussions, but people here don’t seem to want [...]
Amir… hmmm… well… OK… I will keep far,far away from ur sisters!
BTW, u make a lot of sense… LOL… I enjoyed your post. Thanks!
COLD TUSKR,
That is is the truth my friend about Indian ( businessmen ) in Kenya. It is not illogical. Its the sad truth and the indians know it themselves.
Not to say all Indians are bad.
The past 3 weeks have been horrible in kenya. Demonstrators were killed, unnecesary deaths, etc. However, when the gvt declares such protests illegal, and you as a kenyan know very well that the Kenya Police don’t take no B.S., Then as a sane individual, what do u really expect from taunting the police ? a hug ?
Would you even taunt or throw rocks at police in the U.S ? Or attempt to attack one in the western countries ? Hell No, coz u know what will come to you- Rodney King Kando!
The Police in kenya were just doing their job. It’s unfortunate they had to use fatal force but it was in the course of their duty.
COLDTUSKR, I don’t know if you are in kenya ? r u ? If so, did you go on the streets to join ODM guys in protests? by the way the ODM leaders- Balala walked for a few meters, when shit hit the fan they had their Range Rovers pick em up and leave their supporters…..I mean paid hooligans to be clobbered by the cops.
Kivuitu could not announce the resuslts on any other TV Station becoz them ODM goons kept sabotaging him. Poor guy had to hepa and announce the resukts in his office coz the ODM clowns would’t let him.
Plus ODM Ha a very smart, albeit fraudulent strategy. they took over all their stronghold polling stations and threw everyone else out. They also released the results of their strongholds very early and relayed these to KTN First for airing. KTN is not an official ECK Representative. This was to create a substantial lead for ODM. That’s why during the elections Kivuitu said only ECK Results were the real ones, not the Media ones.It did not surprise me coz I know KTN, and especially the standard are just EXTENSIONS OF odm’s PR and Propaganda machine. but n;way nuff of that.
Youa sk why Kibz appointed commisiiners to the ECK without Opposition consultation ? Wow! mara ODM Wanted kivuitu’s term extended, now that it was, they say he and ECK rigged the election ? at times I feel like asking ODM guys what men ask women: what the hell do you want ? nothing makes u happy.
Kibz used Kalonzo to break the kAMBA Vote in ODM ? ..lol.. seriously you guy, ….lol…….Kalonzo and Raila parted ways because of ego. no one wanted to compromise. Why do yu blame Kibz for everything ? I lost my job coz of kibz, I can’t do my wife properly coz of kibz, etc…..
The Armenian guys was a dark part of Kibaki’s administration, I have to agree. During the standard Raid, kibaki didn’y say a word, helft that to his delegates.
Kibz is the type of guy who does not interfere with his ministers work. He leaves everything up to you and that’s why there has been alot of reforms in the ministries. The thing with this strategy is that on the good, u have a free hand to run your ministry professionally, however the flip side is that if u screw up, then YOU as the individual heading the Minsitry take the heat.
MARS,
About me thinking that Indians were evil, i amde that remark in total honesty.maybe it’s not true, maybe I’ve just met the evil ones and maybe I’m judging a whole group of people wrong based on the ones I’ve met.
But about them in busines sin kenya, that is so true and you too know that.
But as KE said, this forum is about unvarnished truth and not kepeing ones feelings inside. Infact now that you know how I feel, maybe you can enlighten me and I’d learn……yaani dialogue mzee
But I’ve always wanted to know how u live ina country for 100 years and can’t speak the language ?
AMIR IBRAHIM,
You said
“I am always astounded by the ignorance in Kenyans, especially those of the nominal middle class. The reason why Kenyan Indians do not mix with the little people is ……………”
what do you mean by the little people ?
Interesting arguments all…. but how about the darn economy?
If anyone has noticed, the shilling is sliding consistently against the major currencies….
Mzeia, your statement about Leakey being “more Kenyan” than most Kenyan-Indians is severely misguided. You say you think so because he is more “involved” in the political process. As if politics is the only way to contribute to society. Kenyan-Indian businesses provide more employment opportunities than any other type of business. Generally speaking people of Indian origin all over the world, not just in Kenya, tend to be much more interested in creating economic opportunities as opposed to politicking. And besides, there have been Kenyan-Indian politicians, even in the recent past, such as Shakeel Shabir (ODM) or the late Amin Walji (KANU). Also, what was Leakey’s great accomplishment when he worked on Moi’s “Dream Team”? He took government money and did nothing…he basically sold him self to the Moi government for a lot of your and my tax money for his backing! Atleast the Kenyan-Indian enterpreuners are creating employment, finding new markets for Kenyan goods, creating new businesses and generally making a positive economic contribution. Why do you think the Indian’s who were thrown out of Uganda by Idi Amin are being begged by the current regime in UG to go back?
And Mzeia was complaining about the bad experiences shopping in Indian businesses, there is a very simple solution if you are getting bad service. No prizes for guessing what the solution is. That’s right, don’t go back. Kwani are you being forced to shop at those places by gunpoint?
As for alleged corruption charges and tax evasion charges against Kenyan-Indians, the Kenyan-Indian community is as guilt y(or innocent) as any other. Ofcourse they have their share of good people (ie: Manu Chandaria, the people who run the Aga Khan schools, hospitals and university, etc.) as well as the bad (ie: Pattni). As someone with a degree in economics, I have to say that the one positive thing under Kibaki has been the increase in tax collection. KRA has done a good job on this count, and this is KEY to the development of our nation. But having dealt with them on this issue as an accounting professional, I will say that there is a wide-spread notion that the KRA is being told to target specific businesses while ignoring those of certain well connected individuals. Also, alot of people question what the government is using our tax shillings for? Ultimately, though, I do agree that people should pay their taxes and to the extent that anyone doesnt do so they should be held INDIVIDUALLY responsible, not as an ethnic group.
To KE and Mzeia’s charges of the Kenyan-Indian community being “insular” and “arrogant”, the same can be said of Kikuyus. One can make the generalizations that Luos are “lazy” and “idlers”. And while these things may be true on an individual basis, you can hardly hope to paint a whole community with one color and then expect a pat on the back for doing so. This is not the “unvarnished truth” KE, it is only your opinion. There are Kenyan-Indians who have given up an easy life in the West to move back to the country and be a part of the exciting development that we all, as Kenyans, will benefit from. Speaking for myself, I can tell you that one of the largest reasons for wanting to move back to Kenya is an experience I had with one of my father’s employees who has worked for my family for over 50 years. As our business in Nairobi prospered, so did the lives of our employees. He took me to his home in Machakos, and because of his earning a stable income from our business, he was able to build a proper house for his family, dig a well, and now his 4 sons work his 10 acre shamba while 2 of his sons joined our company. His message to me was clear: it was up to me and my brothers to continue our fathers work because families like his were relying on us. It has been a message that has stayed close to my heart. Another incident I recall is when my dad’s secretary Margaret of over 20 years (almost all my life) was in the hospital with meningitis and my mother and I went to visit her. She was up in a hospital in Thika somewhere, near her home. When we walked in, she woke and would repatedly keep asking if my father was ok (he had suffered a stroke a few years back and apparently she was having nightmares about him having another one). My mother was very touched by this incident and she broke down in tears on seeing that Margaret had apparently lost her senility, but the doctor’s said the only thing she would talk about was how much her boss had done for her. The moral of these stories, believe it or not, if you look under the skin color and under the sometimes tough exterior, we are humans too. Connections are made between two hearts and two souls, and these instances have shown me where our families connections are. We shall always cherish them.
Anyways, my purpose in posting here is not to change your mind, I just hope that you are open enough to see that things in life are not as simple as black and white.
after interacting with kenyan-indians and indian-indians, i can tell you there’s alot of kenyan-ness in the former group, despite all the lack of interaction,intermarriage etc.
all in all, it comes down to individuals and their outlooks working within their social-framework.
and as for the second-generation kamba employee, doesn’t that confirm another stereotype? (!)
The worst part about the 2007 GE is that it seems to have brought the tribalists out of many of us. KE, Asians and other business-minded peeps are what Kenya needs. As long as they pay their taxes and stay out of politics.
MainaT:
Are you saying “minorities” should not be involved in politics?
If I recall… you live in the UK… ama am I seeing a side of you I have never seen?
Mzeiya: VOTE with your wallet. I support Uchumi when I can lakini shopping at Nakumatt is far more pleasant. BTW, when you are in Nairobi, go to the new Westgate Nakumatt. You could be in the UK or USA. Nakumatt Junction is like malls in S.Africa.
BTW, I had shares in Uchumi when it was run by a Kenyan-Indian, Suresh Shah, (my blog has multiple entries on Uchumi)… the dividends were a-coming… then your fellow kyuks (sorry… but just making a point) including uber-crook chris kirubu took it over. He “appointed” kennedy thairu (GEMA?) as MD. Anyway… the rest is history. Uchumi cratered. The share price cratered. Uchumi was bankrupt.
It has shown some signs of life under the restructuring plan BUT Nakumatt’s Nairobi stores do more sales than ALL of Uchumi’s branches. All the other stores’ sales are extra cream…
Simba:
I am very glad you came back and added your contribution (after initially complaining of being “grossed out” by this forum). Many people have this reaction when they initially visit this blog, but when they do come back and add their contributions, we all end up learning a few things (and that is the ultimate purpose of these discussions).
I am assuming your are Kenyan-Indian?
CT-please don’t misinterpret me. My theme has always been consistent. Kenyans need to stop relying on politicians to deliver them the maendeleo they wish to bring to their lives. Thus my comment that Kenya needs business-minded peeps not politicians and their many sycophants.
Justwhat – I agree with most of your comment but how does the ethnicity of the second-generation employee affect the moral of the story? For me, when I see him, I see another human being who is a Kenyan not some Kamba or some Luo or some Kikuyu. Seriously, why try and deflect your own ethnic and other stereotypes onto the rest of us?
KE – yeah, I am Kenyan-Indian. But frankly, I see myself as a human being before all those other self-identified hyphens. Maybe I am just and idealist though. And I was never grossed out by this forum, only some of the sentiments in this specific blog. But thanks for the welcome.
Mainat – I am with you on atleast one point…we, the people, must deliver the changes we wish to see on a personal level and stop waiting for the government to deliver. The GOK has delivered precious little, under whomevers Presidency, and I for one and am not holding my breath in anticipation. Kibaki and Raila are of the same ilk, and frankly I couldnt care less who was President…pick one and lets get back to building the economy. Like the famous slogan in the US election circa 1992, “its the economy, stupid”.
CT – I agree with almost everything you have said on this post and am going to check out your blog when time permits.
All in all, its good to see that there are some Kenyans out there who want to engage in some conversation about some real issues. I may not agree with all you say, but I certainly believe you have the right to say it.
COLD TUSKER,
i HAVE TO AGREE with you that Kirubi’s team really brought down Uchumi with Thairu. I don’t know why you have to insist that they were Kyuks.
Uchumi performed well back in the day and carries alot of sentiment with kenyans to the point the government tried to bail it out.
I know Suresh Shah is seen as some sort of Sam Walton (founder of WALMART), However I have my reservations-with reason.
I have to agree that under suresh, Uchumi did exceptionally well.HOWEVER, If you were to carefully scrutinize the financials of that time, this would be the 80′s and early 90′s , you’d see a significant portion of their income came from investment in securities.
Basically They’d buy government securities which were very attractive- they yielded high interest rates within short peroids of time. At that time, banks and other organizations and individuals with extra cash spent it on these government securities.
Their income thus was not specifically generated from operations as it should be, but from government securities.
Uchumi getting back to its performance during it’s hey day is quite hard in the current environment. You seem to have a beef with kyuks ? coz they brought Uchumi down ? I’m not sure if you’re aware that the second largest retailer after Nakumatt is Tuskys, which is actually Kyuk owned and run. do you have beef with that too ?
MainaT,
Kweli wewe ni wetu.
I am the same tribe as all mama mbogas and all those hungry people who took out loans at Equity or from the Youth Fund, or the Women’s Fund. I am with that farmer in South Nyanza planting amarantha and making 4 times what she did before.
I am not with people who choose to sit back and complain that the government is not delivering. Kibaki is not your father, and you are not twelve. We really need to restrict the franchise to adults who show an interest in ownership, who have a stake in a prosperous Kenya. There is a need to be just, but clowns who insist on burning their own mothers’ kiosks and wrecking their cities should be shot on sight.
Simba,
What exactly do you mean when you say Kibaki has done nothing? Kweli unaishi Kenya? Don’t rely on ODM propaganda bwana? There has been a massive change in this country, and access to credit is just one core pillar on which this change has been built. The changes have obviously not trickled down as much as we would all have preferred them to, but it is coming, rather it was coming.
Amir Ibrahim
kenyaimagine.com
one kenya, eternally
SIMBA,
I’m also glad you returned to this forum. First, I’m sorry to hear about your father with the stroke, I hope he made a full recovery.
You made this comment “And Mzeia was complaining about the bad experiences shopping in Indian businesses, there is a very simple solution if you are getting bad service. No prizes for guessing what the solution is. That’s right, don’t go back. Kwani are you being forced to shop at those places by gunpoint?”
Now, you just went ahead to reinforce my point! There’s a smack of Sarcasm and arrogance in your reply and I’m sure it trickles down to how you treat your customers. I’m sure you’ve Lived in the West and know how customer issues are handled.
If I went to shop at Target or Walmart or Bestbuy and had an issue or some dissatisfaction, I HIGHLY doubt that the manager would respond by telling me to shop elsewhere if I’m not satisfied.I also doubt he’ll ask me if I’m being forced to shop at gunpoint.
My point is that this ” if u don’t want to shop here, u can go elsewhere ” attitide is what manifests itself in indian businesses in kenya.
And YES, Politics is not the only way to contribute to society, however it is a very strong way to contribute. Politicians legilste laws that govern society. I’m surprised there are no Indian politicians in kenya who’d represent their indian Constituents. I’m sure there are needs that are only unique to the indian community in kenya that can only be articulated by an indian legislator.
Minorities world over are indeed involved in politics, you have to have a voice.
You cannot honestly say that Richard Leakey didn’t do jack whike he was in the government. Have you forgotten that – that was the moi Era and nada could be done without Moi’s approval ? Even if Jack Welch was the head of government, he’d not have accomplished much under Moi. Moi was the ultimate micro-manager….to the extent he had to be the vice chancellor of every Public University.
Richard Leakey got his hands dirty, he joined kenyan politics during the Moi era, he even had beef with moi. He was even chapwad by those Moi agents. Unlike the majority of kenyan whites who live secluded lives and quietly complain about how “bad things have become” Leakey actually stood up and tried to do something about it.
He did not sit back and be quiet and accept the bad things the way a foreigner with no rights would do, No! he got involved in the process. He understaood that he was a kenyan, was not going to go back to Britain and that his kids were kenyan too. and that’s why he took them to kenyan schools so that they could establish connections early with their fellow black kenyans.
I salute the kenyan indians like Pio Gama Pinto- he was Goan tho, and Goans generally do a better jon assimilating than the rest of the indians.
Also Fitz Remedios Santana de Souza , the lawyer who represented Jomo Kenyatta during trial and the first MP for Westlands. again he was Goan, and no to forget Davinder Sikand, who continues to fight for justice and human rights of all kenyans.
The claim that indian businessess in kenya employ the most black africans- as a justification of some sort is totally screwd. The biggest employer in kenya is the government, not business or private sector.
You say that everyone should pay their taxes and if they don’t, then they should be held individually not as an ethnic group. True, but how come when the Tax Registers were first introduced and the merchants in Nairobi went on strike demonstarting in Nairobi, the majority of them were indians ? I mean, don’t they want to build the kenyan economy and pay their fair share of taxes ?
You also said ” There are Kenyan-Indians who have given up an easy life in the West to move back to the country and be a part of the exciting development that we all, as Kenyans, will benefit from..”
boo -hoo! People move where there are opportunities. are u saying that you moved from the west to return to kenya to live a life of hardship? or are you returning because there are opportunities (commercial) you’ve seen in kenya ? be honest!
and this does not change the fact that the indian community in kenya is insular.
I mean, there’s been alot of intermarriages between the tribes in kenya, however seeing an indian and a black kenyan marry is a rarity. you know it, I know it, because your family will not permit you to marry a black person.
You say that you view people as individuals but you on and describe your worker as a “kamba”. There is absolutely no way you can be color blind, it’s reality man!
and please explain to me how you live in a country for 4 generations and cannot speak the language, still have heavy indian accents ? I really want to know.. I ‘ve met chinese jamaicans who speak fluent patwa. Infact if you closed your eyes when talkin to them, you’d think they were black jamaicans. They too were brought by the brits as laborers and they stayed behind, they did not go back to china.But in JA, they are seen more as Jamicans first, albeit chinese jamaicans or as they are known chineys, but in kenya, it’s really hard to tell if an indian is from the subcontinent itself or from kenya.At least with the arab population there is clear distinction that one is kenyan when they speak.
But on the real, keep enlightening me
Mzeiya: Sigh… please check out my blog… I handled the issue about “income”. SS was a smart guy. He figured its easier to make 75% from T-Bills with ZERO risk (theft, spoilage, etc) then expand needlessly in an inflationary economy.
Don’t forget that Uchumi was cash rich because of SS & he bought goods on credit & sold for cash. So in effect he used the “cash” to generate more cash. As a shareholder I was happy!
Who said cash generation has to be solely from operations? BTW, the operating income was also very good. He ran a lean operation. He would work Sundays. I recall being served personally by him at the Aga Khan Walk store (near Electricity House) on a Sunday afternoon.
kirubi did the following:
- sold his & his cronies land to Uchumi.
- haco was a major supplier to Uchumi but wasn’t “owed” money when Uchumi collapsed.
- Uchumi was a conduit for haco & locked out alternate suppliers.
- kirubi’s guys thought the business would run itself.
I was just making a point… coz u started the anti-minority rant (you started with Kenyan-Indians & I am sure move on to Arabs, Whites, Luos, Kalenjins… etc).
BTW, there is a Tuskys-Nakumatt relationship. They even share warehousing & purchasing. I can’t be sure of exact details but others might know.
AMIR,
I love what you said “Kibaki is not your father, and you are not twelve”
Ukweli kabisa ndugu!
People need to start taking responsibility for their own lives.U know how the kenyan economy has been growing, and some people complain that they can’t feel it and thus say Kibaki is not doing a damn thing.
My point is this, it gets to a point in a man/ woman’s life where you have to take responsibility for ur actions.
I mean, in all honesty, if you dropped out of primary school at std 5, you will face less chances of making it in kenya. U’ll probably end up as a conductor or something similar.
The guy who finished high school and the one who finished university are far more prepared to clinch opportunities from a growing economy.
when the economy starts to grow, aliye juu benefits first and most, then it starts trickling down slowly.
You as a primary school drop out cannot expect to compete with the guy with a university degree…never.
COLDTUSKER,
I just stated the facts about Kenyan Indians, and if you read my points carefully, feel free to pin point something you feel not true.
SS was smart for that then. Kirubi’s people brought uchumi down and I highly doubt it will ever recover.
and No It’s not a minority rant, don’t have no beef with arabs ..whites…offcourse!
I don’t know where you are located but once you travel outside and see how people interact with each other, you are forced to look at the situation in your own country and question alot.
Coldtusker:
If Kirubi is such an incompetent business man, how did he manage to become so rich? Yes, I know Kenya is corrupt, but how the hell did this guy make his money?????
I don’t think he’s an incompetent business man. Having one of your businessess fail doesn’t make u incompetent.
Even Warren Buffet “failed” when the original Berkshire Hathaway flopped and was forced to fold.
Kirubi made most of his money on franchises and now he’s bilut up quite a portfolio.
Mzeia said: “and please explain to me how you live in a country for 4 generations and cannot speak the language, still have heavy indian accents ? I really want to know.. ”
- I have no idea where you are pulling such generalizations from. The majority of Kenyan-Indians that I know are very proud of the fact that they can speak fluent Swahili. My parents prefer to listen to the news in Swahili. My cousins prefer to speak Swahili amongst themselves as they think its “cooler”. I spoke my first words in Swahili as a kid, and it was the only class I got an A in while I was in primary school. Granted, my Swahili is a little bit rusty from living in the US for the past seven years, but even when I meet Kenyans here I always try to speak in Swahili just for practice sake. Now if you can tell from listening to me on the phone that I am of so and so ethnicity, big whoop. For example, when Kikuyu’s speak English you can usually tell from the way they roll there ‘R’s and ‘L’s. Or even from their accents. That does not make them less Kenyan.
Regarding the supposed “sarcasm and arrogance” of my statements, I am only stating the truth. You really want to hurt a business, stop shopping there. That is capitalism, my friend. The reason these businesses can afford to be so complacent is a lack of other options for the shopper. And for your information, my parents have been in the meat industry for ages and I have worked in their shops and at our processing plant since I was 14. We treat our customers very well. We know them by name, if they call ahead and tell us they are coming in we will even stay after closing time if that is required, we walk them to their cars and we provide a level of service that quite frankly is unmatched in our industry. It is what makes us different and it is something that my family is very proud of.
ok SIMBA
Points well taken.
I’m glad to hear you speak swahili and your family does too, and the good customer service you provide.
However, It seems you (and ur family) are the/an exception rather than the norm.
If more kenyan indians did behave in a similar way, then my view would change.But maybe as the new generations grow up, things will change, and that also includes the black population with their tribalism.
I guess that’s one area where TZ beat us when they made everyone speak one language.
SIMBA,
Which candidate/party did the indian community in Nairobi / Kenya generally support? and why.what were their reasons.
It’s a genuine question. Just as I’d tell you majority of Jangos supported Raila, and Kyuks Kibaki.
what about the indian population, who did they support ( i.e. most of them )
Mzeiya, I think we finally agree on one thing…its upto the next generation to change things in the country. All we can hope for from the current lot is that they will keep things stable and hopefully start to lay some groundwork.
Regarding your question about who the Kenyan-Indian community voted for, based on my own assessment I would have to say its about as mixed as the general population of the country, but probably leaning towards Kibaki. The fact is that Kenyan-Indians like political stability because it augurs well for the business community, and for that reason the incumbent usually tends to curry favor. Especially in Kibaki’s case, with the economic fortunes of the country improving under his leadership and especially the way his administration has streamlined things for businesses, Kibaki is widely popular within our community. It also doesn’t hurt that he has a degree from LSE and Makerere, and K-I’s tend to have a heavy focus on higher education, especially in my community. But that is not to say that RO does not have his fans. Especially in Kisumu and the Western part of the country, the Kenyan-Indian community see how popular he is and tend to find him much more attractive of a candidate. Perhaps they hope that an RO presidency will yield in better roads, better infrastructure and some “devolution” in an area that is not part of Central Province. But overall, I think the K-I community would be of the opinion that economics should trump politics….and hence all this current political infighting seems a bit counter-productive as the country is being bled to an economic death of sorts whille Kibaki and RO try to sort out issues. Needless to say, we hope for the best on that front.
Btw, mzeiya, thanks for asking about my dad. He is doing much better and is fully recovered. I appreciate the gesture. Btw, what about you? Where are you from and whats your story?
Simba:
Your parents owned a meat factory? now I know for sure that you are not a Hindu
you must be a muslim, like our dear sister Zain Verjee who all the men are after.
Haha…actually our families are related somehow and we are from the same community. She is definitely one fine Kenyan
SIMBA,
I’m currently in the U.S. Half Maasai, Half Kyuk, so I guess I’m a pointee of some sorts.
Thx for the info regarding the Indian community. At times we just need to be enlightened about issues for us to grasp them wholy.
I was of the idea that K I.’s should like Kibaki coz I know Business definitely does. I once met a guy called Vimal Shah, a director of Bidco and I was so amazed at this guys bullishness.
He was very bullish about Kenya and I guess he had good reason.
hhhmm, Meat business ? how’s that industry? R U guys in the export market too ? I once saw this guy who’d come from Dubai to set up a slaughter house In Athi River for exporting beef directly to Dubai.
I don’t know if that deal went thru…..but I guess there’s a huge export market out there too.
I talked to a friend who’s based in kenya during the election time and he gave me two scenarios of the post election environment.
He said if Kibaki was to win, he assured me we’d have a kenyan in forbes top billionaires soon, yaani that is a kenyan without political connections, jamaa ambaya hajaiba, so kina MOI and Biwott don’t count.
He told me businessmen had so many deals in the pipeline that it was ridicoulous.
He said that if raila won the elections, the economy would definitely slow. His reason was that people were not sure of Raila’s economic credentials thus business would adopt a wait and see attitude. i.e. if u planned on expanding your business by say kshs 100 million, you’d prolly put up 10 million while u saw how things went.
But I guess in the end the latter scenario is what’s present right now coz of all the violence.
Speaking of Zain Verjee, yeah, that mama is deadly, she’s hot. But did anyone see her on CNN at UHURU PARK Being tear gased ?…lol.. I don’t mean to laugh but she made me laugh..
At first she was acting all professional and polished, like a very well educated International journalist-which she is, however as soon as that Teargas hit her..damn, the kenyan in her came out so spontenously….
I’m sure had they not cut the scene you’d have heard her say ” hawa macop ni washenzi”
KE
Did you see a copy of NSE’s top millionaires some time back in 06 ?
mzeiya: You are not serious… kirubi f****d kenatco. Then he started buying up assets on the cheap from government firms. Even an idiot who steals can “reinvest”.
Wow… you are living in the USA… no wonder…
In the old days there were “foreign exchange controls” unless you were connected. kirubi was. He bought Int’l Life House for pennies on the $. How… well, you & I (not being kikuyu) would not get access to forex. Forex controls are anti-free market but a god-send for the corrupt.
So kirubi gets the forex. Buys the building from the “foreign” owners. The ndegwas did the same with ICEA. Insurance companies in Kenya were “forced” to sell 51% to locals. Guess who had the “forex” to buy them out?
Many mhindis were forced to resort to the “black market” to buy forex coz most could not access it from the CBK.
mzeiya: I surmise you are aged 20-25. Just like your alfie “goebbels” mutua… calling kirubi a “tycoon” & “dealmaker” without examining his “robber” origins. Its also known as laundering. Dirty to clean.
Another so-called fake tycoon is naushad merali. More details on him on my blog. His backers were moi & kulei. scams… & now a tycoon! Bullshit!
Simba & mzeiya: Zain… Too bad she has or took up Canadian citizenship… she would make one fine eye-catching prez… I would rather look at her all day than kibz or RAO or kalonzo. Of course… it is sexist but she outclasses any of the women politicians we have. I know martha karua is smart but she got the brains not the looks…
Martha Karua for President 2012!
CT,
Next please do a write-up on the wealth of the following.
a)Nyachae
b)the Odingas
c)Ntimama
d)Gumo
e)Musalia
f)etc, etc
What is the difference, between making money from the KenGen IPO and making money as you say Kirubi did. If say there are two other tribes in Kenya, one the middle-upper-middle class, and then the poor shits, and these poor shits have no access to or knowledge of IPOs, sure there’s much to be giddy about when 300,000 odd take up KenGen, but what of the watu yahe, the 100% whose wealth is being given away for almost nothing? Is there a moral difference? Check this on privatisation
http://www.kenyaimagine.com/in.....;Itemid=29
Amir Ibrahim
KenyaImagine.com
COLDTUSKER…
lol.. you say Kirubi bought assets on the cheap ? and you have beef with that ? seriuosly Daddy, I thought you were smarter than that!
That’s how people make money in business, you buy assets on the cheap!!!!
No sane businessman would ever want to huy assets that are over priced . During the dotcom boom of late 90′s did u see Warren Buffet buying into those dotcom companies that were literally making people millionaires overnight ? NO! he even got alot of heat for not doing so.
First he said they were overpriced…keyword “overpriced”, then he said their fundamentals did not make sense.
Fine, Kirubi had an advantage, becuase for him his main advantage was that he acquired Assets that offered limited chances of true competition. As you so pointed out, those were the days of Forex Control which is anti-free market, however those with connections made a killing.
Kirubi was in the right place at the right time, he was in a field that had significant barriers to entry ( i.e. not everyone could acquire the forex to do deals), which is always aplus for a capitalist. Do not be deceived into thinking that businessmen want competition. That’s just the talk they say when in public, however, no one wants it but has to live with it. In Kirubi’s case, he did have the means to acquire those assets on the cheap and he did, anyone would do the same thing. Please don’t try to play the higher ground by saying if it were you you’d have turned those opportunities down, coz you were so ” pro=free market” total B.S. My guy, even u should know it.
Well you’re trying to guess my age….keep guessing….pole sana Daddi, I don’t see how age matters in any of this discussion. I could be 18 and you 40 something but that don’t mean I can’t contribute.At times the older guys need younger minds..remember during last Year’s budget speech, Amos Kimunya brought a 13 year old boy who had more vision than most of those MP’s…
Nashuad Merali,biwott, etc, they made their money in the MOI era and honestly, there’s nothing we can do about that.It would be very silly-seriuosly, silly for us to complain and whine about that.Honetsly.
During the MOI Days, I have to agree things were bad, you really could not make those big chumz without some sort of connection, however thsoe guys did it and that was their luck.
Remember , even Hedge Funds make money in good or bad markets, it really doesn’t matter. Right now there’s a Hedgie called Paulson in New York who made a bundle shorting Sub Prime stocks, yaani the jamaa made money in a bad year..so, don’t whine ati those guys sijui did what, they are hustlers and they made their loot. Paulson made like $ 4 billion dollars for himself while people’s homes were being foreclosed. If you find this disturbing, then my friend you are probably in the wrong line of business/ blogs.
And Yes, I am living the U.S. and I’m glad I am. actually I’d recommend it to every kenyan who gets a chance to try as much as posisble to live in the U.S. for a while, it really is a land of opportunity and it really opens up your mind.
so COLDTUSKER, Question for you..I can’t wait to hear your response coz I know it wil just be bile ” what do you think of Transcentury group ?
over to you sir….
also, it’s true that Kirubi is a tycoon and he’s also a deal maker. You may question his dealmakings but that doesn’t alter the fact that he is a dealmaker, whether he made legal/illegal deals is not the point, he is a deal maker.
Mzeiya, the way I read it I think CT is trying to say that S. Shah was a better manager for Uchumi than Mr. Kirubi. Not that I know much about either of them, but the point that CT made about Haco Industries being owned nothing (ie: because they were paid everything due to the alleged Kirubi connection) while other suppliers probably got paid pennies on the shilling is pretty jarring. If the reverse situation where true, say some muhindi was in Kirubi’s place, then I am wonder if there would have been a big hue and cry about it in the press and on the blogosphere? Here in the US, there is a related party disclosure in the footnotes of the financial statements of public companies. Is this the case in Kenya?
Regarding the meat industry, exports are not really the driving force of the business, not yet anyways. Kenyan meat is much more expensive than say Brazilian and Argentinian beef, so it is pretty difficult to compete globally. They have huge economies of scale, lots of land for herding and plenty of governmental support. Same with Botswana. Most of our customers are hotels, government institutions (ie: the army, the big Uni’s, etc.) and other high-class butcheries within the East African region. With the impending disaster in tourism, its going to be a hard couple of months, but also an opportunity to diversify the customer base within COMESA and elsewhere. The good old every threat is a possible opportunity philosophy.
Agreed with your point about age having nothing to do with the contribution you can make. Frankly, I continue to be more impressed with most young Kenyans than their parents. Hopefully this a good sign for the future.
Kirubi is an enigma in terms of how he made his connections (and this is mainly because he has never been a politician). I mean, where the heck did this guy come from?
Looking forward to the post on Naushad Merali.
mzeiya:
They will never be a legitimate Kenyan billionaire on Forbes as long as they continue to make their money in shady ways. Have you looked at the list of billionaires on Forbes? They all have one thing in common and it’s their ability to sell products in huge markets (both inside and outside their home countries). Kenyans because of their shadiness and reliance on political sheenanigans have been unable to penetrate markets outside of Kenya where they do not have political connections.
Look at how the Indian company Wipro was able to penetrate the U.S. market – it was sheer hardwork and brilliance. They actually sent their first sales person to California and told him not to return to India until he had racked up a few sales contracts! He lived in a one bedroom apartment with his wife and kids while he hustled for contracts.
Kirubi would never, ever be able to compete with anyone in America or India (i’ve heard that guy giving interviews – there’s nothing in his head).
KE,
Don’t be too pessimistic about our business people back home. That’s probably what the indians used to say back in the 80′s and early 90′s and look at where they are.
The truth of the matter is that business is not a level playing field. Don’t think that all the guys on the Forbes List made their wealth in a “genuine” way, and by genuine, I mean thru honesty and all.
Actually on that list is a number of Russians, who are all quite young. They made their wealth the kirubi / kenyan (days of Moi) type of ways, thru connection. Look at kina Abramovich’s history and you’ll see how.
SIMBA, You’re right, Brazil are much more competitive in terms of beef and a whole bunch of agricultural commodities.
It’s true, if kirubi was a muhindi, maybe no one would have bothered to scrutinize the guy that much.One thing I didn’t like about him was that for a long time, most of his haco workers were temporary employees, yaani for years, the guy didn’t want to pay them benefits.
YES, Young Kenyans are much more impressive than the older guys.
I was watching a documentary about Kenya’s early history and it had some very nice clips on Jomo kenyatta and those early days.
People get offended coz kibaki calls guys “mavi ya kuku” ? after hearing Jomo Kenyatta speak during a Kisumu speech, I found Kibaki to very polite. This guy would call guys ” Kum@ za mamazenu..” while giving Rallies.
But Iwas really impressed by the man, he was very sharp and a good good orator in any language. He also understood kenya’s challenges very well and what needed to be done about them.
There’s a part he has an xchange with Jaramogi in Kisumu. He’s basically lambasting Odinga Sr. to be a true leader by encouraging his people to work hard and put food on their tables instead of throwing stones……lol…..I found it very funny. I didn’t know Jangoz been acting this way since those days.Kenyatta also blasted the guy for being “well fed” yaani kushiba while the majority of his people were hungry and suffering. I’d recommedn everyone to to do some research about kenya to understand why or where we are today.
I also think MOI retrogressed kenya quite significantly. It’s said we were at the same levels with kIna Malaysia and South Korea at Independence, but look where they are today and where we are …go figure
KE,
About Nashuad Merali, that’s someone who made hay while the sun shone on him. I Know he started as an accountant for -I think Ryce or cmc motors and the guy took over that dealership fom the jungu and he built his empire ever since.
Those MOI Days, your business would not get past a certain threshold until MOI & Co got in on the action and you gave them some equity.
I mean , look at all the successful blue chip companies in Kenya today-Homegrown, Safaricom (Mobitelea), these guys had equity on almost everything big.
I’m sure there’d be salivating over Equity bank if they were still in power. But again, Equity would not be where it wa stoday if they were power coz they’d not let that happen.
I believe now you’ll begin to see the emrgence of true businessmen in kenya who don’t rely on political connections to survive, ala Biwott, Gideon Moi, Kulei etc.
I also like the fact that NAKUMATT is very bullish on the eknyan economy
and that the IT Sector in kenya is poised to grow to KSH 50 Bilion in the next 2 years
the problem all around africa is people are so eaten up with ENVY AN JEALOUSY ,its the root of corruption,murder andeven inventing their own history.
In europe we may admire someone elses belongings,but we don’t hate them for it or want to hack them to peaces
there is extreme poverty in europe also,i know,because i’m from that background
Guys, what the f*ck is going on in Naivasha and Nakuru? This thing is really starting to scare the living bajeezus out of me. It has taken on a life of its own. Is anyone else feeling a little panic-ridden?
ALANNBI,
But were’nt the jews in the nazi era in germany hated and targeted for their wealth ? and this was in Europe. and look what hapened to them – They were put in gas chambers, which may be more savage than hacking.
I think humans are all the same. there’s jealousy and envy wherever you’ll find mankind.
SIMBA:
This Naks thing is really scary. You know for a while , Naks was the only place that was peaceful and it’s residents were saying they live together in harmony. Now it seems things have turned.
The neighbor turning against neighbor thing is really disturbing to me. I have all the sympathy for people who’s relatives have been killed, but is taking another life really the way out of this mess? For me, the scary thing is that the fact that people are doing this shows their lack of respect for the law (ie: murder is criminal). The fact that people, on both sides of the divide, think that they can get away with this points to a potentially anarchic situation in the country as well as a culture of impunity. People have lost their respect for the rule of law, and unless something happens quickly to change that, things are going to be even scarier.
I think were lost here. Discussing about other peoples wealth is absolutely time wasting. Lets talk about business opportunities now that can change our financial standing in 10 years. Otherwise were creating the sam dragon that swallowed our MP. How can a Luo/Kalle/Luhya become rich in the next 10 years. If we learn this then were doing something now to change our future. We need to discuss issues not people. Lets take a different approach from the one our stupid idiot politicians are taking us. Otherwise when our brothers are being killed in the villagers, they call them freedom fighters, to enable them earn more. Were just being used as ladders to get to higher levels. Lets now think about ourselves!
LEOEDD,
In all due respect, It’s very hard to talk about development issues while the country is burining (not literally), but in chaos.
I think this is the bets time to squarely address issues that ahve been bugging us kenyans for years. The violence in the Rift Valley is much more than just about disputed elections. It’s clear now that people are settling old scores , old beefs, old jealousies, etc.
Maybe once we address these issues is when we’ll be able to move foward.
I’ve observed that the Kenya Police do a better job in this crisis than the army.
I think the army are just lazy and unprepared. It’s not teh first time they’ve been caught offguard. I rememebr once they had a hard time keeping off forces from somalia as they were caught unprepared yet again.
I mean, in Naks, they walked a mile removing stones and other roadblocks from the road, only for the civilian gangs to put them back.
The army felt frustarted and decided to leave. I mean, are these guys seriuos ?
I saw how the police engage with the public, i.e. they talk to them first and warn them, after that if u don’t heed the warning, shauri ni yako.
Maybe it’s coz kenya has always been at peace and that’s why our army has slackened and become fat, lazy and inefficient ?
You know in kenya, It’s a privilledge to join the army. Coz all they do is eat, sleep, train, grow fat and get goods at deeply discounted prices..remember AFCO ?
Mzeiya,
My worst feeling is that we kenyans are too political until we don t exactly know what we want. The country is at war, when the police shoot thugs who are looting and mordering, we, and the stupid Kiai say the police have been given orders to kill. The military has definately not been trained to deal with civilians. Theyre trained to kill the enemy in war lest they themselves get killed. The police are trained to thionk fast and act in a way that ensures calm is returned even if it means killing few mad men. Im sure weve been brainwashed to think our fortunes will change once we elect leaders from our tribe. Thats the realm of madness. The peak of it. The work of a government is to create an enabling environment for economic activity. Period. The only appointment jobs available are probably around say 200-400. These are too few to change the fortunes of any tribe. And if we do it tribally, then 5 years is too small to make a lasting impact on any tribes fortune. We need to be a working nation, not a fighting tribe.
My feeling is that the police never killed the initial kalenjin raiders in the first place and all the hooligans who had barricaded the road from molo to eldoret. It would have taken just 4 hours, for the army and the police combined to end trhis mess. Raila and Ruto would have cried as a result of the consequence of their advice to their people, and things would have resorted to normal. This is not going to return back to normal soon. The armies have gone out of control, looting has become a way of life, Sactity of life is a joke, We think that property we sold for a fortune can be reclaimed using bows, arrows and machetes, when our thoughts are sick, i dont need a prophet to tell me what will happen.
Anyway, my friend, after the war, the battle will continue. The kiuks are known to settle their scores patiently and terribly. The results of what has conspired in the past 2 months will tear apart many families, will make great friends turn to foes, and though peace and love may return, it wont be tribal romance in our generation! Our 15-20 year olds have been turned to raiders and killing machines, if they live upto 70, then what do you expect? No wonder the pokots who are neighbours to these tribes have learnt to attack with so much terror, that it leaves these tribes crying for months. Its not a surprise to me. I now understand. In the foture im sure the next investment kiuks are making as for now is a decent gun. If you doubt me, patience my friend, patience. The pokots sell them i hear for 10-40k depending on type and age. Wanugu’s and wacucu’s are our brothers. All they need is supply. We pay. Thats affordabla. Ill buy one each for my 6 brothers. At times i think that the only way to have peace is by fighting. If a bully keeps on bullying and you do nothing, it never stops, and he may kill you, not because he is stronger, but because he learnt that you can do nothing!
LEOEDD,
Actually you are quite right about the army. I don’t think they are trained to deal with civilians but as you said, to kill the enemy.
The police are better trained to do this. It was obviuos when I saw the differnce in style when the Army was negotiating with the crowds and when the police did it.
The police are more tactful, engaging but stern. The army has a “my way or the highway” approach and that does not get far.
Indeed as you said, it is really really sad that kyuks had to be attacked in such a savage and brutal manner as they were in Rift Valley.
i’M REALLY GETTING SICK AND FRustrated with the way things are going.I’m wondering to myself, WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT ?
I think KE was right earlier when he posted a blog asking what the NSIS was doing ?
I mean, isn’t it their job to gather intelligence on what’s cooking and what’s not ?
I don’t know if Kibaki underestimated the violent nature of the opposition but he should have been sending some agents to all their rallies , and these agents had to be proficient in those languages so that the gvt would know what was going on.
LEOEDD, I mean it’s been weeks and yet no one has been taken to court about this ? C’mon Kenyan gvt, you can do better than this!
I saw the police Commissioner saying they’ve made a couple hundred arrests, but frankly we don’t care about those couple hundred of small fish. We need to see the big fish go down i.e. RUTO, That’s when this madness would stop.
there’s so much impunity coz people think and know they can get away with it, and it’s somehow true. the moment people see the government is no non-sense, that’s when law and order will be restored.
The gvt has to realize that ODM is a very dangerous organization of power hungry men willing to do anything to acheive power.
They’ve even killed their own MP Were to advance their agenda….
LEOEDD, these things will have to be addressed before it gets worse.
Mzeiya,
I told some of my friends that Kibaki has one big problem. Sleeping on his job. If it were Michiki it would not have gone this far. It would have been arrested when youiths closed roads between Molo Eldoret and Kitale. Then the army, police ans the flying squad would have silenced this madness once for all. They would have said their tribes are being killed but the storm would have ended. With all the Military choppers and gunships, HOW can few stupid thugs be allowed to barricade roads for days, and be allowed to escape? The only problem is that we have a government full of people not willing to take responsibility. Every MP has sworn to protect the constitution of kenya. What do we see? people claiming land they sold at a fortune is theirs. To hell with these crooks, Kenya belongs to a people with bettter brains than these small minded people. Imajine if one wouild have to be employed based on tribe, stay in places where their tribes abound, drive trucks only in their tribal cucoons, think harder, where would these luos stay? They had not thought about their strategy well and its backfiring on them. Given time, Mungiki could take over Kibera and Mathare, Theyre being forced out of Westlands, Kinoo, Kangemi, Mathare Nakuru, Kiambu….Theyre being laid off because of failing to report to duty,by obeying their foolish tribal chiefs. This is the peak of stupidity. Surely if this is the canaan i heard Raila promise kenyans in His elections, i dont see the slightest idea of it. Should Mungiki be allowed to claim plots in Runda owned by other tribes.. surely we have crooks in parliament being paid hansomely to fund tribal armies. Weve lost relatives and friends because politicians could not use their mouths properly, and the tax, most of it paid by kikuyus funded the salaries of hooligans who later urinate on us. Many constituencies in western cannot afford paying th salaries of their MP’s and councillors. Lets tell them to get their pay from their looted constituencies, and when they see theres no pay, theyll be careful to watch their tongues. They should not be paid until their constituencies/towns resume normal business. Shoot to kill has come late, Life would have been back to normal by now. The consequences of allowing Mungiki to regroup will be felt for long. And this time, there will be no goodwill to finish it. The worst thing is that they are establishing themselves in Nairobi. ODM has failed in its plea to take its followers to the peomised land and at the end of the sword and machete war, enters the cold war, people are hurting and crying inside, and nobody seems to know it but God and the victims!
LEOODD,
I feel the frustration in your voice. It’s a pity things had to come to this. Youa sk one important question when you say if this is the canaan Raila was promising his supporters ?
Well, this is what Majimbo was all about when they were preaching it’s virtues. These guys really hate kikuyus, especially in the rift valley. I don’t understand the hate when their guy was in power for 24 years !!
It’s true, these are the times Michuki is needed. He may not be liked by many but I love him coz he gets the job done. when he was transport Minister, he enforced the Michuki rules. When he was security misnister, he cleaned out Mungiki.
At least now we’ll be assured that our roads will be fixed on time and maintained well.
At times I FIND Kibaki unrealistically NAIVE. I heard the guy telling the IDP’s to return to their homes as security was being provided. I was like R U F’IN SERIYUOS DUDE ?
i MEAN THESE guys just witnessed their people being burnt alive, hacked to death, they know they are not wanted, in some areas the local (Kelenjin) cops just watched as guys were being killed and you dare tell people to go back to this ?
That is the height of irresponsibility and unsensitivity from a leader. That’s why at times Kibaki is thought of as Aloof and out of touch with reality. He’s good on the economy and not interfering with his minister’s work, but at times he has to show more courage and have bigger balls.
That’s why the donor community is getting frustrated and threatening to withdraw AID. They are tired of Kibaki doing nothing yet, he is the president. he has to assert his authority.
Thing is right now he’ll also start feeling pressure from his people, yaani kyuks who’llforce him to act while his people are being slaughtered.
I think Kibaki underestimated the need for beefing up security and intelligence. Remember these areas had long been dominated by MOI men like Wilson Boinet who really helped ODM during the referendum.
Kibaki needs to stop being NAIVE and WAKE UP! People are being killed right infront of him.
Also, this mamabo of the police Commiss sayin they’ve arrested over 1000 people is B.S. WE want to see the BIG FISH, a.k.a RUTO head’s go down, that’s when people will know the government means business!
Don’t expect Kibaki to do anything. Check his history on problem resolution-chill until the problem resolves it-self. The older generation kyuks have failed their community because they had 5 yrs to implement changes that would have protected the innocent kyuks in such a scenario but these are the same people who own thousands of arces in RV. We can live separately but peacefully and that’s when all the sober minds will realize you don’t ‘eat’ or ‘live’ your tribe. Why didnt the kales and maasai ask for the settlers to move-out? Can’t understand this BS but on the flip side lots of biz opportunities opening up due to this shidas. When we get back to biz then we can share some ideas.
My biz partner is a luo and I we had just bought 10arces of lake side and we were in process of putting up a resort-like hotel mainly targeting local tourism. Hmmmmmmm
T FIG,
Congarts on your purcahse and on the idea. Do you still plan on going on with the venture after all the chaos especially in kisumu ?
You are right – Kibaki doesn’t have a history of decissively dealing with issues. I’m still disgusted from seeing the NTV Clip on youtube where the politicians were chit chating, acting as if all was good-unbelievable.
Well one thing I know is that kisumu will pick up again, although it may take a real long time.
I’m sure once all this beef is settled, kenya will be on such a fast track that people will wonder what’s behind the momentum
Hi Guys,
This is a sad story for Kenyans. Another Mp dead, and im sure within a year many more will fall. Whether given 24 hr security or not. There is nothin as bad as the prayers of innocent blood. Even if your chopper has to fall, God will allow it.
The bigger part of the sad story is Economic Marginalisation. Beleive it or not, if what these guys want goes on as planned, the best place to set up a business will be central, it will be the most developed after nairobi abnd Mombasa in terms of standard of living, and the inequality talk will continue.
We dont become rich by sending away the rich amongst us. I have come to see that the problem many Kenyans have is inferiority complex. You think rich people are proud, you think trhey stop you from being rich and the like, and you feel they should be sent away for you to have the same opportunities. I think we should find out what happened to Uganda after Idi amin chased away the Indians. Museveni had to compensate them for them to come back. The economy just couldnt pick. I may be seen as partisan by some unlearned but it will be very hard to build a national economy if we think like Kikuyus or Luos or Kalenjins.
With the other tribes being chased from Kinoo, Kangemi, Mathare, Githurai due to revenge, and with the shortage of low class housing in Nairobi, i dont need a professor to tell me that life will be harder for some people in Nairobi. Cold war is worse than a real fiight. Its descriminant and leads to a slow death. If you ask me what will happen next, Mungiki and Taliban will be turned into hit squads, and who will be tha target – The initiators of Clashes for revenge, The stupid MPs, and the rich. I dont need to have graduated from harvard to see this. I also dont need to evaluate their credentials to see we have the most stupid parliamentarians ever in the History of kenya. Someone who starts fire in the neighbours house and laughs without knowing that the winds will torn the flames to ignite his own house. And to this i say God is surely faithful!
Kenyan indians can keep to themselves.there is a right to association and dis-association.The real reason why kenyan indians can’t mix with natives and savages,is because kenyans,the only thing they think is to drink alcohol and eat cholestrol laden nyama choma.They spend their entire free time drinking tusker.Anybody else who have a different idea of spending their free time can’t enjoy that kind of a group.Wake up kenyans,alcohol is killing more kenyans than tribal clashes!
TELL KIBAKI WE WON’T ALLOW HIM OR EVEN LET ME BE BOLD SHARE THE LOOT 130 BILLIONS THAT MOI STOLE FROM THE KENYAN PEOPLE- ASIO PENDA -IT WON’T HAPPEN- LET HIM AND HIS CRONIES BE KNOWING WE ALREADY KNOW WHERE MOI TRANSFERED SOME OF THE MONIES! and who holds the accounts!! not allowing the British to investigate did not stop Kenyan private citizens – to ask for that help!! after all the money is owed to Kenyans -not the government and any Kenyan has the right to sue – Moi owes all Kenyans and if the Kenyan Kibaki government lays in bed with moi the thief- then the people of Kenya have to fight to get the money back!!!
Date
2007-09-08
Source
The looting of Kenya
Kroll and Associates were hired at great public expense to follow money that left Kenya during the reign of Mr Daniel arap Moi. At the time, it was not Kroll that came to Kenya knocking on government doors asking for a job.
Kenyan ministers and civil servants looked for the consultancy firm, gave it a summary of facts they had already gathered about their case and set them on a fact-finding mission. It now emerges that the Government received two reports, the latest dated April 27,2004, for its pains.
It sat on that report, and today the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Affairs claims that it passed it onto the Kenya Anti-Corruption Cover-up Commission – which was only set up in October 2004.
A significant amount of the so called hearsay points to the existence of assets in the United Kingdom.
When he arrived in Kenya, British high commissioner Adam Wood offered his government’s support in tracing these assets and returning them to Kenya. It seems that offer was never taken up – and now the Government is blaming the British for being uncooperative.
There is a whole load of excuses about the Kroll report – from the attorney-general, Mr Amos Wako, who has not seen it, to the government spokesman who believes it is full of inaccuracies and hearsay. Everybody wants this report to go away. Unfortunately, inaccurate and full of hearsay though it may be, the document raises some important questions that need to be answered.
It is disturbing that a man who ran this country into debt and ignominy managed to be so pennywise that he salted away Shl30 billion. Even if thins is just it rumour and conjecture and Mr Moi had just half of that in assets, he could easily be the owner of a significant portion of the manufacturing sector in Kenya.
How did he acquire this fabulous wealth – despite the penury of the public service during his time? How come his two sons, who are mentioned as owning at least Sh50 billion a piece, have come into the wealth when only one served in the military? At the very least, these individuals and their associates might have been invited to explain how they managed to make a fortune – wherefrom and when – when all else around them was collapsing. Did they invest in the New York Stock Exchange or go into gemstones or aviation?
We understand that Mr Moi and at least one of his sons have threatened to sue the newspaper in the United Kingdom that named them in this disagreeable affair.
Kenyans have no capacity to sue – but since they regularly interact with their former president and regularly receive his advice on where the country should go, perhaps he can deign to explain how much wealth he has and how he acquired it. On its part, the Government has a choice to deal with this matter now, or wait until next year when Kenyans can make decisions on it – but it is not going away. Did I hear you say Sh130 billion?
PNA -KIKUYU FOOLS YOU THINK YOU CAN KILL ODM MPS AND THEN TURN BACK AND CLAIM THEY KILLED THIER OWN MP,?? HA!!HA!! LET US SEE WHICH HEADS WILL BE ROLLING- SOMEONE ALREADY TALKED AND IT WAS DIRECTLY TO ANNAN AND BRITISH AND AMERICAN OFFICIALS?? WHY DO YOU THINK THEY OFFERED FBI HELP AND THE GOVERNMENT REFUSED?? THEY ALREADY KNOW WHO DID IT – I LAUGH AND FEEL SO MUCH PITY FOR SOME OF YOU ON HERE- HOW FOOLISH CAN YOU BE?? OR IS IT DENIAL DENAIL THAT YOU HAVE MURDERER’S IN YOUR MIST- YOU WILL BE SURPRISED WHO GAVE THE ORDER FOR THE TWO ASSASSINATIONS- YES KENYA WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN
wacha the Ouko assassination- this time the proof is not just there?? recorded and it is checkmate wait and see fools- let this be a lesson to all Kikuyu’s who think they can murder innocent Kenyans in cold blood to stay in power? yes you are hated? with all other tribes? do you wonder why?? I don’t think this tribes hate ordinary kikuyu’s- they hate your leaders who get rich and protect thief (MOI) at the expense of other Kenyans !! so let as not pretend that we can’t see where the problem starts from!! keep on with your blindness- Being abroad does not excuse your thickness to the situation in Kenya!!
Good Luck- but get this right- high placed people in PNU planned the assassination of the two ODM MP’s and they already know who and how!! some killers have conscious after the act of killing I guess!!
Kenyan,
you seem to be going nuts on here! Get a hold of yourself!
How do you know for sure PNU was behind the murder of ODM MP’s? And are these ODM MPs more important to you than those 1000 Kenyans [read mostly Kikuyus] who have been butchered in cold blood by a certain community and that they were incited by ODM leaders? Also, have you heard of the Human Rights Watch group who have openly claimed to be having solid evidence of ODM leaders behind this genocide?
Get real and stop shouting hysterically on here & stop inciting hatred against Kikuyus, or anyone for that matter.
Also, coming back to the economy, what can we say? It is absolutely disgusting that Luos went on rampages in Kisumu and today it is finished. How can they destroy the very place where they have been living in all these years and go on a rampage to destroy it? So okay, ODM lost and so did my favourite football team but did we go out to murder,rape, destroy the economy of our area?
I’m sick of all those who make excuses that just because they are led to believe that elections were rigged, they had the right to go out to ‘show their anger’..hello..we are in the new millenium age and not them dark medievel ages!!
KE,
I’m a Kenyan Indian born in Mombasa, and my ancestors were not actually brought in by the British but they came over since most of them were Lawyers & teachers and there was a scarcity of these professionals at the time. I understand where you are coming from when you talk of your irritation you have of some Kenyan Indians but did you also realise that not all are that way? I too have had my fair share of being at loggerheads with them in several ways and yes, I also hate many there due to their arrogance and I have seen the way they treat their Kenyan workers – African and Indian also. But not all are bad. And did you know, you will be allowed inside any Hindu temple if you decide to pay a visit? So please stop generalising without trying. Go to the Hare Krishna Temple in Ngara, and you’ll see many of our Kenyan brothers [all tribes] who are devotees also worshipping equally with all the Indians. You may be surprised that most of my friends are Kenyan Africans and my neighbours too and some are Indians but very few. I love my country Kenya as this is where I was born and brought up and I am most probably more patriotic than most Kenyan Africans even..so not all of us are that bad!!
Mzeiya,
You may not have heard of them, but yes, there are plenty of Indians who have married Africans. I know some personally. An Indian lady married to a Mr. Ngugi and has 4 beautiful kids also. As for your assumption that the Arabs have mixed in far better than the Indian community did you bother to look into the facts even?
Arabs did this to convert the local Africans to Islam in order to integrate with them. Take a look at the Mswahilis of Mombasa – who are they? They are a result of Arab & African people mostly who are Muslims by religion. Do you see one Christian?
As far as Indian culture goes, India is a very big country with a very ancient culture. Those Indians of Trinidad etc integrated easily due to the fact that they came from a different state of India compared to the ones in Kenya. Therefore, in short, the culture, history, language etc is very different and this plays a very important part in the social backgrounds and set up of particular communities from any one Indian state.
India and Indians have always welcomed different people and religions into their ancient country and offered them safe and healthy environments to prosper in and you will find that Hinduism has never rejected those from different religions, backgrounds, race etc but always absorbed them to thrive within.
KENYANGUY,
thx for the info, I did not know that indians from a differnt part of india assimilated/ did not assimilate becoz of this.
I know for sure the goan community in kenya seemed to have assimilated faster, I think Kenyatta’s Lawyer was a goan who was the first Westlands MP.
I think the indian community in kenya needs to work harder at assimilating. I think many black kenyans keep seeing Kamlesh pattni in the media and equate all indians to him, tho I doubt he is liked even within the indian community.
I once went to a shop in nairobi- card center or text book center..that had this indian guy as an attendant. I told him what I wanted and i couldn’t undertsand what the guy was saying. Dude could not speak swahili or english, I wondred how to communicate with him. My friend told me that he was fresh off the boat from india.. and i was like???
Dear Mzeiya,
I have noticed too that there are plenty of Indians who have just landed there, most cannot speak Swahili nor English. I worked with some at a point until I said enough is enough. I was always at loggerheads with most of them due to the fact that the attitudes are different compared to those already born in Kenya. But most as I know, want to be in Kenya so that they can go onto USA later on. Having said this,my tailor is from India but he is a good man. Always willing to help any African with employment issues, speaks good Kiswahili & wants to be in Kenya genuinely.
You’d be surprised how large and diverse India really is. We have more tribes than the whole of Kenya put together. Every 250 KM, the dialect spoken in any one state changes. A lot of people do not know that India’s borders at one ancient time began from Iran, Afghanistan to Burma, Uzbekhistan to Sri Lanka where it was one mighty empire before it got raided by the Arabs in the 7th century. So just imagine all the different languages with diverse cultures thriving under one whole umbrella. Kenyans need to learn that though in Kenya we have 43 odd tribes, diversity should be made our strength rather than a weakness since every Kenyan no matter what part of the country he/she comes from has to offer something towards the betterment of Kenya.
The problem with most Kenyan Indians is that they do not spend enough time exchanging views, nor explaining anything to their African colleagues about what Indian culture really is & thats why the suspiciouns & mystery that most Africans feel, and I believe its because most of the Indians themselves are ignorant of their own culture & traditions which are very ancient. If they were to come out & educate most Africans about the social beliefs etc I reckon they’d be able to bridge the gaps easily. My African friends all know who I am & what my cultural background is all about & they really appreciate this & I believe if all Indians were to educate their African friends, there would be more trust & respect between the two. In fact, all my African friends come to my home with their families, even my driver, we all chill together & its our Kenyanness that we share mostly. We are one.
To come back to your point, yes I reckon you must have gone to Text Book Centre.
Kamlesh Patni is not at all liked by the Kenyan Indians..I can vouch for that completely. He has given us a bad name & most would have nothing to do with him if they can help it. The Goans may have assimilated to a certain point..here again the cultural aspect comes in. Most are Christians and they have been colonised badly by them white guys. During the freedom struggle of India, most disassociated themselves with the rest of the Hindus of India by believing that they are white & that the British will grant them citizenships in UK after independance. This did not happen. Instead, they were left behind.
In Kenya however, they are a small population compared to the Sikhs & Gujaratis who are contributing largely economically and here again, these two have very strong cultural backgrounds. By assimilation, I guess you mean speaking the language which most do if born in Kenya & like I said, there have been inter marriages between Africans & the Kenyan Indians, but mostly it also depends on personal, individual choices at the end of the day.
The amount of times I have been complimented by ordinary Africans for my command of Swahili & that I speak it far better than them even, just proves there are many Kenyan Indians like myself who do converse in the national language fluently.
I hope & pray that our motherland is healed quickly & I want my old Kenya back..peaceful & properous.
How are the attitudes of Indians from Indian different from those of Indians born in Kenya?
KENYANGUY,
Thx again for that info, I really like learning more about differnt cultures .
Kumbe you’ve been to Text book center and know what I’m talking about?….I knew that guy was not a genuine kenyan, he couldn’t talk in any audible language.
Yes, it’s true, the indian community needs to open up just as you’ve explained things. See, I didn’t know that about the goans, but it makes sense now.
I’ve always felt that kenya should look to india to get it’s ideas, coz india had smiliar challenegs to kenya, if not worse. I mean in india they’re over 1 billion with so many tribes, while in kenya we’re what ? 33 million with less than 10 MAJOR Tribes….
Honestly, I think kenya should learn from india. Do u know by the year 2050 India will supass britain in terms of economic development. But yet again, for any country to suceed, it all depends on leadership. I think india strated changing when the current Prime Minister was the fianance minister. He put in place measures that are responsible for what india is today.
Do u have indian connections? like have u/ do u travel back to india to see ur ancetral home/roots ?
and when u go back there, can the indians there tell you are foreign ? do u speak the language apart from swa and english…and if u do, is it teh same as theirs, yaani the accent and all ?
I met this indian guy once here in teh U.S, he said he was from kenya but I had my doubts. He had a very thick indian accent, but after doing more inquiry, he said that originally he was from india, and he’d lived in kenya for a while before coming to the U.S., So I guess he falls under that category of those who come to kenya as a passage route to the U.S.
His accent agve him away, coz I know if you’re kenyan indian you’re accent should’nt be that heavy. I met alot of people from carribean here, even chinese jamaicans. You’d never know they were chinese if you closed your eyes when they spoke to u. These guys speak fluent jamaican, and they said they’re families had lived there for 4 generations.
That’s what got me thinking about the indian situation back home.
do u feel any strong ties or do u mainatain or have any strong ties to india ? or to u is it just where your forefathers came from ?
Dear Annon,
The Indians from India & the ones of Kenya are poles apart in more ways than one. If you’re in Nairobi right now, take a walk to a place called ‘Diamond Plaza’ in Parklands & you yourself will see the difference between the two..
Firstly, most can’t speak Kiswahili, maybe some broken English; they DO look different, walk different, dress different & to top it up they behave differently from the indigenous Indians.
You go there & if you get an earfull of some type of broken Swahili with an accent ‘Wewe Jinga taka nini’, believe me that is a guy landed straight from India…
Mzeiya,
But Pole sana for that!
You’re welcome for the info.
You made me laugh about the audible language..
You have mentioned some very good points about India’s troubles and leadership. The thing is, the two are intertwined terribly. India has been in chaos since the 7th century with the first Islamic invaders who tried to finish off the entire ancient civilisation, destroying temples, universities, entire kingdoms, populations – in fact there was a genocide of 80 million Hindus which even the Indian Govt will not mention in case it ‘hurts’ the sentiments of the Muslims there – that is how much weak the ‘leadership’ is there. Authentic history is not being taught in schools whereby kids may become patriotic & grow up to challenge the system there. Not every Indian knows that the Arabs took so many Hindu slaves to be sold off in slave markets of Baghdad – even the Hindu Royal family of what is now known as Afghanistan was sold there as slaves.
So how do we expect them Kenyan Indians to exchange any views etc with their African counterparts when in the first place they themselves don’t know their own history?
I do not have ties with India myself except that there are a few distant relatives left there. I do speak some Indian languages, including my own also, and as for me, India is just the place of my ancestors – nothing more. The last time I went there was in 2003 and that was the 2nd time – the first time was a sight seeing tour of the magnificent South with its ancient temples & the 2nd time was to Amritsar in Punjab where they have the Golden Temple. And both times, they all could tell I’m foreign..hehe
My accent obviously will be different to theirs and also the way we talk when in Kenya will be the same as going abroad – so they immediately know we’re from outside.
I honestly think India has far to go. The present Govt there is corrupt & hell bent on dividing the Indians at all levels. The problem India faces today is Islamic infiltration from all its borders. My ancestral land is Kashmir, where we Hindus have been uprooted, murdered and chased out by the Muslims with the help of the Congress govt. Hindu genocide has been going on in Kashmir and the Govt does nothing. Most of my people are in tents still after 20 years as refugees.
As for economy, I believe it will be China pretty soon. Watch how fast they’re taking over trade etc. India has potential, but that potential will never surface due to the fact that the country is submerged with power hungry, greedy & corrupt illiterates who call themselves politicians. The present Congress ‘leader’ is seen as a soft ‘puppy’ of the Italian Antonia Maino Gandhi who is the one that is leading India into its demise. The myth that India is emerging as an economic power is but just a myth just to make the ‘Govt.’ look good. In fact there has been no economic development in any of the states that Congress Govt. is majority in- the only one state that has emerged as an economical power is Gujarat under a great opposition leader who is known as Modi. This guy has great vision for India & Indians. Totally clean & has wiped out corruption in his state – if he promises to do some type of projects for education, police, finance etc, he will actually do it. The guy is more action than words. But the enemies are hard at work & are doing everything possible against him.
Coming back to Kenya, this is my motherland & I only have strong ties with Kenya. I can’t see myself ever living in India – not in a million years even. It will always be Kenya – nowhere else!
man KENYAN GUY,
You really don’t like india I can see. Do yu really think their growth is superficial? yu were there in 03 and yu couldn’t feel this growth ?
You say this modi guy is all that ? the only thing I fear about that is progressive people like him tend to “expire” quite quick, if u know what I mean.
Look at Kenya’s history, J.M. Kariuki, Robert Ouko, Tom Mboya, Pio Gama Pinto, all these progressive guys were killed.
You say indian kids are not taught the real history? well I also found out that in kenya we’re not either, you have to educate yourself when you grow up and learn the real history of kenya. People only know of kenyatta as a “thief” sijui the guy grabbed land , etc, etc. I ahd that mentality too but once I looked back at that time, it became obviuos to me that it would be silly to get mad at the guy for that.
I just noticed most freedom fighters benefit immensly after teh struggle is won.In recent history look at South Africa. the ANC were instrumental in fighting apartheid. ANC was communist while the boers were capitalist.
But when ANC won, it’s front runners were the biggest beneficiary. Kina Thabo Mbeki, Sexwale, even that ramaposa guy became immensley wealthy. I guess this is what caused the rift in ANC and that’s why peple like Jacob Zuma are popular despite their shady backgrounds. The freedom fighters always get the resources coz they are the gatekeepers.
But n’way back to india: I’ve never understood the conflict in kashmir. All I knew was that it was between pakistani and india. what is teh real reason for fighting ? what does kashmir have? is it fertile? minerals, resources? why is it fought over so much? what’s the history behind it ?
Ati the invaders tried finishing off the indians in the 7th century by destroying property and lives? yaani they pulled a Ruto on the hindus…but 80 million? that’s a big number..do peole know this or is it just a select few ?
I posted earlier why I think china will win this “growth” rivalry over indi, and why india is disadvantaged.
India is disadvantaged becoz of it’s democracy. Yaani, in china, there’s no democracy, so when the gava wants to build roads, bridges, buildings, it just goes ahead and does it, and evicts who ever is in the way. That’s why china got built up so fast.
But in india, there are so many delays coz mara the gvt has to seek a referendum from the local residents, mara sijui complaints have to be investigated…so it delays kila kitu.
Despite those hardships, I’m still bullish about india. I mean these guys manage a 9% growth rate that is consistent despite their many challenges.In kenya we averaged 5 % with a smaller population, but I believe we’re on teh right track.
Kenyanguy, u say the indian politicians keep the masses divided, and that some of the most politicians are illiterate ? well, that sounds so familiar..az in ni kama kenya tu!!
speaking of politicians who are not endowd with alot of education, I like Kalembe Ndile..that guy is straight foward , speaks his mind and to the point. I laughed when i heard the guy this morning say that he doesn’t understand why the british embassy in nairobi is restricting visias to kenyans , hyet when delamere came to kenya, he didn’t require a visa to come and steal land.
and what’s up with that walji guy who was running for westlands? that dude has some ODM tendancies….I saw him and his bro fighting guys, you’d have thought they’d been hanging out with fred gumo too much to learn such crude behavior..
MZEIYA,
Rafiki, I don’t hate India..hehe. Just the bureaucracy, overcrowdedness, and its anti-Hindu stance. Governments have come & gone – none have been good enough or far visioned enough to lead the country anywhere. Discipline & patriotism is needed if the people are to make any progress. You cannot be a patriotic Indian in India..hehehe..they hate you for it. It only happens in them bollycrap movies but in reality, they go for you for speaking the truth!
I was there in 1999 first when I landed at Madras Airport. When stepping out of the airport, I wished I was back home in Kenya. It was a total culture shock to my system! But as days went by I was okay though I knew I could never live there. In 2003, I landed in New Delhi & could see that they were busy building dual carriageways – but thats all with traffic all over. I reckon our own JKIA surroundings are better when coming out into Mombasa Rd – there I could only see rubbish tips coming out of the airport & a big building for the Haj pilgrims.
Funny you should say that good guys expire fast – the cretins from the Congress Govt are already out to get him – not only that – but do you know the Pakistani mafia don called Dawood? well, it so appears that someone has paid this Dawood guy to target Modi & other Hindu leaders who have become extremely popular.
Kashmir has important borders with China, etc – Pakis are adamant of taking over first Kashmir, then the rest of India slowly. The idea is Islamisation of the region with zero progress. India gets more bomb blasts after Iraq & Isreal, year in year out & the Govt. also knows about bomb making factories at cities like Kanpur – but as usual nothing gets done.
Kashmir is a legal part of India when India was carved up in small pieces during when the Brits were there – It had Hindu Royalty who actually signed off documents to be part of India & not Pakistan – but Jinnah the Pakistani founder sent in his troops who were then beaten by the Indian troops in 1948 & Pakistan still occupied a certain part of Kashmir illegally due to the complacency of the Indian PM, who did nothing to get back that half. Since then, Pakistan reckons it has a legal claim over most of India and not just Kashmir. The land involved is Kashmir, Jammu & Ladakh. All share important borders with China/ Tibet.
You know you have hit the nail on the head – China doesn’t have democracy- that big man kama amesema ..amesema. Hakuna mambo ingine. Though harsh, I still reckon this is the route to great success. Its military is very powerful & right now China is building railway tracks along the Indo-China border so that it can transport its military anytime without any hassles. China is already brazenly calling the northern Indian state ArunachalPradesh as its own..can u imagine that? While the Indian PM sleeps in deep slumber, China may just ferry in its troops into India. Don’t forget the Chinese invasion of India in 1962..
Yes, its a well known fact that the largest human genocide on earth was that of the Hindus when India was raided by Islamic invaders.
Here’s some links if you’re interested in some history:
http://satyameva-jayate.org/20.....n-history/
http://www.geocities.com/ibniblis/hindukush.html
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/mssmi/
http://www.kashmiri-pandit.org.....index.html
http://www.vepachedu.org/terrorism.html#Ignore at your own peril
This will give you the entire picture of what has happened to India. Jihadis did a Ruto there..talking of Ruto, how come this pumbavu isn’t behind bars yet? I reckon forget the coalition, get these criminals behind bars first, then form any sort of coalition with those who aren’t jailed from the Machungwa party!
Yeah, Ndile is a cool guy. He’s got a level head on his shoulders. Walji seems to be following the rest of the hoodlums nowadays. Has this guy ever said anything beneficial even?
I strongly believe Pres.Kibaki did a good thing for the economy & hats off to him. Yes, we are on the right track & wish to see a further 6-7% growth for the next 5 years consistently despite we having a rocky start to the year. However the problem as always in any booming economy remains where only the middle class & top class of society benefit, leaving a wide gap between the rich & poor. This is where Kenya & India both are very much alike.
Kenyans !!Kenyans please watch must watch USA house committee on foreign Affairs- endorse a ban on Visa’s and freeze on accounts and a slap on all properties owned by any Kenyan MP- from both PNU and ODM who disrupts negotiations on a coalition Government!!
Now we know why UHURU KENYATTA IS IN SUPPORT OF A COALITION GOVERNMENT!!
Kenyans thank the USA for all their efforts and we demand they also freeze all offshore accounts regardless which countries the accounts are!!!
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/.....d=203939-1
KENYAN GUY,
Thx for that history about the kashmir beef between india and pakistan.
but, I still suspect you don’t like india at all…you call their movies “bllycrap”…lol.. I always thought those bollywood movies were supposed to be a big deal?
I’m also surprised that you said the indian leaders do not like people who take pro-hindu stance? I thought it was muslims that were not liked in india ? and isn’t hindusim the majority religion there anyway?
ati the chinese are building a railway line to transport their troops? you know, that’s one thing about china’s form of leadership. these guys are not democratic but they get things done.Chinese say they are communist, but yet they seem to be the biggest capitalists everywhere.
speaking of getting the job done, I just watched a clip on ntv kenya with michuki talking tough to road contractors….I like michuki, he gets the job done.
With Ruto, the government needs to handle him. Ruto is clever, he put himself in that mediation time in order to stay relevant. I wonder what goes on in martha karua’s head as she sists opposite this guy in those sessions…I mean does she smile and laugh with him but at the back of her mind she’s going ” wewe ukajua what awaits you…you’d not be smiling…”
I really want to see where this mediation thing goes.But the gava needs to handle it quick,punish the perpetrators and all. I still laugh when I hear of “power sharing ” agreements…I just don’t see that happening, I don’t see the gava creating sijui prime minister post and two deputy prime ministers…I mean, what the hell? ati two deputy prime ministers? These guys are really smoking some stuff to even dream these things..but n’way they’ll sort themselves out.
I was surprised at that walji guy. I thought he was more polished than that, but the guy and fred gumo are no different, they just love violence, only differnce is that gumo sends his guys to do the beating while this guy sends his people and joins them in doing the beatings…..
I’ll check those links and learn more about the indian region.
But yu guy, u have to give india credit for where it is today. I mean, these guys are over 1 billion, and many differnt tribes, and they are together, while us, look at us, only sijui 30 million and we want to “seceede”
Mzeiya,
I just laugh whan i watch kenyan politics. With no one with two thirds majority in parliament, Koffi annan must be stupid to negotiate with only a select few. Any posts need constitutional ammendment and if PNU rejects it thats the end of it. Whether koffi annan cries, begs this is our country. Even if its passed in parliament the last word is with Kibaki. If he refuses to sign it to become law what can they do? He refused to sign the media bill, and life has continued. The more time lapses in the negotiations the lesser the options in ODM table. Those are the rules of a negotiation. Do it fast and get the most. Here ODM with brilliant minds were once again outwitted. Kibaki yesterday said that everything has to be made within provisions of the current constitution. Does that not ring a bell here? In short he says the can discuss as much as they want but he is in power, and the present constitution will not be changed for now. Period. He just doesnt give a damn about international pressure. In America, Bush has already lost credibility, too many wars , falling economy, America is at its worst. With an election nearing, he has no voice and there will be new players. In fact Kibaki should have directed condoleeza rice to go and see the PS in the ministry of foreign affairs. He should not have seen her himself. This would have given America the signal that we dont deal with errand boys or girls, when their masters dont behave!
One thing is clear, No one is listening to politicians anymore when they call for demos, Life is back to normal (if you never burnt your town), wacha wapige kelele, let some people wait for the canaan promised (jobs and appoitnments from ODM), but as for me, im a hussler and money has to be made, i dont know any politician and i dont need to, and if what i see is true, some guys are making more than they were before the chaos, without political godfathering. Thanks to the great entrepreneural spirit that lives in the slopes!
LEOEDD,
Yes, people’s lives are back to normal, but I fear coz I know ODM is capable of re-inciting another round of violence to portray the country in bad light. I hope this time the gava is ready.
watch NTV, there’s a clip of atrader in kisumu who echoed what yu said. The guy basically said that he’s back to business and that now it’s for raila and kibaki to sort themselves out.
I was so proud of this guy. He went abck to his life and understood that u are reposnible for ur own life, raila is not responsible for urs. good for him!
Kenyanguy:
Why do I suspect that you are an Ismaili Muslim?
What prompted you to visit India? were you like a black american who thinks Africa is their homeland, then they get there and discover it really isn’t?
I would love to visit India, but not on a budget. nope.nope.nope.
Gives a comparison of Nairobi vs. New Delhi
Thanks
Jambo KE,
Nice to read your comments. No, I’m not an Ismaili though some of my friends are Ismaili also. You tell me why you suspect me..
No Rafiki, I’m a Kashmiri Hindu throughout!
I love Indian history & wanted to see for myself great structures like the Golden Temple & ancient Hindu temples taller than the skyscrapers so with my friends we all went. It was good experience & fun.
I don’t know what it is but I always considered India as where my ancesters come from though we Kashmiri Hindus don’t have our land anymore – I guess the bitterness I feel against the rogue pro-Islamic Indian governments puts me off totally of ever wanting to contribute to India. These idiots are forever appeasing Pakistani infiltrators who want to bomb the crap out of Hindus & nothing is done about the suffering ever.
Having been born in Mombasa & lived in Nairobi, this is it for me. My land, mother & country is Kenya. I love my country. Well, to some extent yeah, I guess its like them black americans but I don’t know what it is – there is some beauty about being on Kenyan soil. I feel at home totally here.
Nairobi is less polluted than New Delhi & less populated. Yeah, it would be good for you to visit India. No, don’t go on a small budget.
Regards,
KENYANGUY,
I’ve always thought that muslims were a minority in india and that they were not liked ? your comments seem to suggest that the muslims are the ones who call the shots ?
by the way, thx for that C-SPAN Clip, I’m listening to it…very interesting..I’m listening to Maina Kiai blabber away..lemmie make of what he’s saying..
I suspected you were Ismaili because you were hating on India (you actually sound like a Pakistani with all that hatin’).
Since when was India pro-muslim? if anything, they seem to be moving more towards Hindu extremisim (Who’s that Hindu extremist politician who just got elected? Modi?
I really don’t understand what the big deal is with Kashmir. It’s like that patch of land between Ethiopia and Eritrea – why can’t you just divide it and move on?
Did you feel intuitively Indian when you went to India or did you feel Kenyan? I can’t relate to many black americans myself (did you feel the same way about Indians in india?)
Rafiki KE,
No I don’t hate India at all – in fact I’m hoping for the day that Hindus will get themselves organised to oust Islamic Jihadis from the country. One thing I believe you must understand that there is no extremism or fundamentalism in Hinduism. It is an ever evolving thought process that not only caters to the Hindus but to all peoples of all creeds. It has no room for fanatics or blinkered thoughts.
Modi is the guy who is bringing his Gujarat State up economically. He is hated for the fact that he knows what the Indian Congress regime are upto when it comes to their appeasement of Muslims. Modi is always exposing them in his speeches & he is also anti-islamic terror. Don’t forget, India gets more bomb blasts after Iraq & Israel.
Nope nope nope..Kashmir has a lot of Hindu history & is Indian soil – if India gives that part up, then the Pakis will keep grabbinng more by forcefully driving out all Hindus. Why should India give up Kashmir in the first place? Pakistan [read: Jihadistan] was created out of Punjab & parts of Afghanistan, Sindh etc where most Hindus were driven out by force or killed off. In the first week of partition of India, the Jihadis of Pakistan killed 5000 Hindus alone. The entire train that was headed for Amritsar came in with only dead Hindu corpses. Not one person alive. Women raped or they commiteed suicide before getting raped.It is happening in the southern state of Kerala – Jihadis destroying Hindu temples while the Congress regime appeases them for votes. It is an anti-Hindu Govt. totally with the foreign minister who is also a Muslim.
I actually felt like a Kenyan Indian when I visited India both times. This will make u laugh but whenever me & my friends boarded trains, though the Indians are very polite & friendly [ inquistive] cos they could tell we’re foreign, in order to communicate with each other we guys just talked in Kiswahili so that they couldn’t understand what we were saying. One particular time when we got caught was when we stopped at Goa & some Goans boarded & sat in our cabin. Man, they stunk of liquor all of them. So I said to one of my friends in Kiswahili – ‘kwani hawa wana nuka mbyaya sana – ina onekana wamesha penda tembo sana’ & we started laughing amongst us. When we stopped, one of the Goan guys replied ‘ Sindiyo – tunapenda drink yetu sana – mnataka chupa moja?’
Man, we were so shocked. They then told us they too are from Kenya…
Hey guys, the world can be so small..hehehe
hhhmm KENYAN GUY,
guys boarded the train intoxicated and u later found out they were kenyan ?…doesn’t surprise me…lol..
I see I’m not the only one who suspects that you don’t like india, KE said it too.
Mzeiya,
Rafiki how are you? Good to read ur posts too.
Yep, them Bollywood movies really get me. Only the comedies are the best – the rest is just crap. In India everyone wants to be in them movies..
Yes, the Indian Govt. is totally anti-Hindu. How can some Italian rule over 1 billion Indians? Imagine, in our Kenya, Raila is having a tough time already let alone any outsider getting in. Can you imagine some Spaniard or Chinese ruling over us, with our politicians being made into stooges like that wimp Indian PM? There is a type of minority politics that is being practised in India where the Muslims are being appeased for vote banks. They have special priviledges over Hindus who are being treated as 2nd class citizens.
No way! Yeah, India is good that despite all the different languages, states, food, dress, etc them guys know how to tolerate each other – but thats what I mean when I say here that Hinduism accepts everyone from all over the world even. No restrictions. Tolerance is the main fundamental aspect of Hinduism – u can say something like ‘Live & let live’ principle. We have a proverb – Let all noble thoughts come to us from everywhere – so I guess thats what keeps India together with its diversity. Kenya must take this example & turn it into an advantage. We all have something good in us that God has given us so why not contribute for a better future for kenya?
The Chinese have discilpline on their side – if the Govt says something. they all have to follow it. They have been building the railway for some time now along the northern Indo-China borders. Their aim is Assam & other northernly Indian states which are very fertile with good weather.
Yeah, Michuki is tough & we need his likes whether like it or not. Him & Karua are two of the best we have. Did you watch that Martha Karua interview on BBC HardTalk programme sometime back? Man, she really gave them what they deserved. Its strange, I too have been thinking what they think when they all sit opposite each other when the gava is there to hold talks etc. And WTF is Ruto still doing there? Should this pumbavu not be inside one of Kenya’s most notorious jail by now? Anan though he’s doing well & brought some calm to Kenya, he still needs to identify with where the problem really lies. First jail the criminals & then hold any talks of some sort of coalition. I doubt this coalition can work in Kenya. I’m keeping fingers crossed that in time, we’ll come to some good decisions being made for the sake of peace & tranquility but for as long as them killers of babies & women still walk free in Kenya, there can never be any security nor peace.
I was optimistic when Anan was on his way & am still optimistic about the whole mediation process. What makes me laugh is mara Ojinga doesn’t want the PM post & then he only demands for it – again he didn’t want coalition – now the ODM are gagging for it otherwise they are now calling for mass actions next week – what the hell are these fools up to really? I reckon, the President is just sitting back watching all the fun. He has already laid his cards on the table but yet again, like spoilt kiddies ODM will want its own way. I am praying to Him up there to bail Kenya out of this mess pretty soon. I’m sick of seeing little kids/women suffering. Kenya deserves better.
Oh boy, no we cannot have any type of seccession whatsoever!!!!
Mzeiya,
No no ..I just love Kenya – where I am born thats all!
When’s the last time u guys were back home in Kenya? I bet it feels good whenever you return. Or do u feel different?
Here’s what todays Nation is saying about a PM post..
http://www.nationmedia.com/dai.....sid=117345
And more ODM threats for mass action – which I reckon no one will pay any attention to…
http://politics.nationmedia.co.....p;sid=1507
KENYANGUY,
I was surprised to see the ghandi lady was actually italian when i dug up india’s recent history. Yu know, funny thing is that this type of thing happens in some countries. Wasn’t the presi of Peru a Japanese guy or something ? She must wield immense power over india?
but there’s still something I don’t get and I need u to provide numbers for this….what % of indians in india are hindu ? muslim? sikh, etc
reason is, if muslims are a minority, then why do the politicians need their votes that much ?
Yeah, I saw Martha Karua give it to that snotty high commissioner Clay on BBC Hardtalk. Damn, Martha is one tough woman, she’s confident and articulate on her postions and gives stright answers. I wish the gava had more people like her.
About William Ruto, you ahve to undertsand that this guy is only trying to protect his ass and buy as much time as possible. When kOFI Annan came, it was agreed that ODM and PNU send their negotiating team. RUTO put himself in that team so that he’d be at the forefront of knowing what direction things were going. It’s like me robbing a bank and being part of the investigating commitee that is formed to investigate the robberry. That way, I’ll have first hand info of what the recommendations are and how far I am to be caught.
My theory is that RUTO wields alot of clout in ODM and as such, he personally chose ODM’s negotiating team, i.e. Musalia and Kosgey. He did not choose people who would clash with him or who’d not conform to him, but wanted people that were easily controlled and would not object to him.
You have to remember that RUTO is the rainmaker who delivered Rift Valley for ODM. I mean the guys really wooped PNU’s ass in R.V. By a huge margin. It just showed that Moi was no longer relevant in RV politics and RUTO was the king. I mean, PNU had relied on Moi to deliver for them but that did not happen.
Also, RUTO has brought heavy hitter fundraisers for ODM with Kina Joshua Kulei. as a result, that’s why it’s hard for Raila to dicth this guy despite him being a HUGE liability and Raila knows it. I recall when Raila and kiBAKI first met, RUTO had insisted on meeting too but was frozen.
Yeah Michuki types are needed, I wish we had Michuki clones to run the other ministries where we know the job needs to get done.
I haven’t been to kenya ina while ..like 4 yrs, I try to stay abreast of new developments, especially in business, tho in kenya they are linked.
I really wonder what the mood on the ground is, I mean even if u are an ODM Supporter, don’t yu get tired of these retrogressive calls for mass protests ? or are there people who will heed these calls and see them as justified ?
I think the major challenege of the government remians two key things: to unite the country as a whole and to reduce the gap bewteen the rich and poor.
hOWEVER, PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERTSAND that kenya was really badly managed for 24 yrs of massive plunder and pillage of the economy.
The economy has improved in 5 years, yet there are people who haven’t benefited. People need to realize that for the benefits to trickle down to the kibera guy, it will take a while.The benefits will follow the pecking or pyramid order of things. The rich class will benefit, then followed by the middlelass, the poor will take a while to feel that, though they can now take thier kids to primary school free and get a basic education.
after 3-4 yrs from now is when Kenya will see MAJOR Surge in it’s economy.The massive infrusturcture projects underway are too major not to have an eefct on GDP.
Expansion of Mombasa Port kshs 16B,Expansion of JKIA, Construction of by passes to start in April, Fiber optic cable to reach kenya, Sale of Telkom, introduction of bond market at the NSE for capital raising in March this year.All these reforms will see kenya reap real economic benefits.
I also strongly believe that this is the time to do major reforms bcoz I ‘m not sure that whoever comes in 2012 will allow major reforms to take place.
Dear Mzeiya,
I agree with you completely. Kenyan economy has been plundered for nearly over 24 years & yes Pres. Kibaki has tried as best as he can & past 5 years have borne fruits of his futuristic vision. To undo the damage of 24 years in just 5 years is absolutely ridiculous to expect but thats exactly how them guys in Kibera are thinking. They wanted change to happen overnight – though we all understand it is like you said, a pyramid effect. Pres. Kibaki has good plans for Kenya & yes you are correct whether the guy who takes over in 2012 will ever get off his ass & execute these plans is uncertain.
Also, on the ground, the average ODMer is quiet. Most have recognised that just by rioting & destroying on an empty stomach makes no sense while the likes of OSAMA Balala have been shown up to be running around on Nairobi streets with police chasing them..OSAMA gets into his chauffeur driven jeep leaving them empty stomached Kibera guys all alone out there to face the rungus & bullets. People just don’t talk openly about politics anymore cos most just want bread on their table at the end of the day.
It has been a premeditated plan with systematic destruction of Kenya – farming, railways, transport systems, you name it had come to a halt last month. What kisrani month we faced January – everyone knows this is the Orange revolution at its best Ukranian style. Everything had been preplanned. Pres. Kibaki is smart & has been taking his time when dealing with these goons from ODM & I reckon all this is because the gava is in the country. The very fact that he is in our country shows how important Kenya really must be. But I really cannot fathom how the Government is going to work with Raila & Ruto at his side.
I agree that the greatest challenge for the Govt is to reunite Kenyans & close the gap between the rich & poor – I have always maintained that the root of our problems is this gap between the haves & have nots. I mean though in the West also there is poverty but at least the poor are clothed, fed, given benefits & shelter for free. I don’t know whether this can work in Kenya but the rich must be taxed with a system that is foolproof. There is great potential in Kenya & billions of shillings come into the country with tourism etc but that is not proportioned out well. Sometimes I reckon, Raila wants them Kibera guys to stay poor so that he can use them the way he did for his hate speeches – Raila used their pent up frustrations very well while he himself has a chauffeur driven Hummer – how ridiculous is that? Can’t them Kibera guys see what all this is about?
Coming back to ur questions abt India – Hindus are 85% – Sikhs are more or less 2% and most are part of the Hindu system anyway along with the Jains & Buddhists – with Muslims around 12% leaving others as Jews, Xtians & Parsees.
The problem starts where Muslims have got their own ghettos & strongholds & some have become no go areas for Hindus. The Govt has divided Hindus politically – we now have the Marxists who are doing Ruto on many tribal Hindus decimating them in large numbers in places like Nandigram in the south where recently thousands were massacred for 3 weeks non-stop while the Congress regime sat there turning a blind eye since the two are together against Hindus who vote for Hindu parties. Many inside the Congress regime are Muslims – the foreign Minister is a die hard Islamic fanatic who called for a Fatwaah against that Danish cartoonist – I mean can u imagine some Jihadi foreign Minister shouting out like this as if India is an Islamic country? The Congress regime stood by him at the time. Even when Bush visited India all the bearded Jihadis & Osamas came out on the streets to protest – though India is a Hindu majority, the regime will only allow Jihadis to protest but will shoot Hindus if they decide to come out to protest. The root of the problem is appeasement politics of the Congress regime there. There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan – so just consider how their votes are being begged for by the shameless Congress guys.
As for that ‘Gandhi’ woman she is like the Italian mafia with shady deals. Her son is a drug addict living with some Venezuelan woman whose father is a drugs barron..hehehe
This Italian is totally & openly anti-Hindu – cannot speak good English nor Kihindi. The only way she manages to suck Indians dry is by financing those who vote for her regime – though recently there has been a surge of Hindus voting for pro-Hindu parties which is a great sign. People are fed up of her anti-Hindu comments & her corrupt party. Indians seem to be awakening to what really this Italian is doing there – making loads of money while most Indians live on less than 2 dollars a day.
Recently they investigated who Indira Gandhi really was & who her father was – it was totally shocking to find that these guys were not Hindus at all but Muslims posing as Hindus in them days during partition. The revelations are shocking & most in India now know the truth behind the corrupt Nehru, Gandhi & Indira..all were spineless retards who took India & Indians for a great ride just to maintain power.
Kenyanguy:
Where on earth are you getting your anti-sonia propaganda from? The congress party won a free and fair election against the BJP and the Gandhi family mystic helped them do that (& of course the fact that many of the poor voted for the Congress party because the economic boom had not trickled down to them).
Sonia then knew that she could not become prime minister (as she is Italian born) and she gave the post to the very competent Manmohan Singh.
And Sonia does speak Hindi I believe (just with an Italian accent).
Watch this fascinating documentary on Indira Gandhi (link below)
http://video.google.com/videop.....38;q=nehru, gandhi, documentary, bbc&total=10&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
WOW,
KE and KENYANGUY….very interesting counter points….
so the congress party is the one voted by most of the poor people ? and that’s the one Manmoahn singh is under ?
I know for sure Manmohan singh did a lot for india in the early and mid 90′s to open up it’s economy. His policies are partly responsible for india’s surge today.
He was taking the reforms that the kenyan government is currently undertaking today-though he did this in the 90′s, that’s why I’m very bullish on kenya’s future eceonomy especially in the next 3-4 years.
Kenya needs to be viewed as stable and the government needs to deal with his enemies, yaani, people like Ruto need to be jailed for life!
I called my friend in kenya who told me about the militia’s prepping for “war” in rift valley. apparently the story was carried by the nairobi star which has some form of credibility from what i undertsand.
Kenyan guy, u said india has more muslims than pakistan ? I thought pAKISTAN was a totally 100% muslim country ?
I think with the indian gvt, the hindus, being a majority present a threat to their stability. In any gvt, the biggest threat isalways kept at close length and constrained.
just the way Raila campained on an anti-kikuyu platform coz the kyuks are the majority.
I think I’m taking a break from eknyan politics for like 2 weeks. I just want to come and read about major developments, like they arrsted ruto, and life went on…
by the way, I saw that clip of Balala fleeing like a baby to his new range rover while almost leaving his bodygaurd. wow, pictures speak a thousand words, it just shows u who these guys really are.
Jambo KE,
You need to delve further when it comes to ‘Gandhi’ Dynasty. The credentials or lack of them when it comes to Antonia Maino ‘Gandhi’ leaves a lot to be desired. She is not a politician, neither a degree holder of any sort, nor any passmarks in English even – in fact she was a barmaid in Cambridge when she met ‘Indira’s’ son Rajiv in UK. Most of this woman’s speeches are written out by Hindi speakers of the regime & during normal interviews she is unable to speak Hindi with its proper grammar even.
Nothing in India is free & fair as they would like people of the world to believe. Also, the poor didn’t vote for Congress – rather a whole range of societies from different backgrounds voted due to the fact BJP is yet another Congress type party with its own agendas but uses Hindu sentiments to get ahead while Congress hurts Hindu sentiments & bases its election agenda on ‘secularism’ & Muslim appeasement and not to forget the Quotas they keep advocating for when it comes to dividing Hindus into castes etc & turning them against each other.
The farmers recently for the past 3 years have been committing suicide all across the Indian subcontinent due to the fact that the Congress have been holding them ransom for the loans given to them. Indira Gandhi has her own history – I’ll check the link out later but I wouldn’t be surprised if its her own propaganda machines at work. I’ll also get the links to where I get my info from – weigh them up & see for yourself. Plse allow me a little while & I’ll give them here. Perhaps you may then see what I’m saying on here.
In India, you need to understand they don’t win elections on their own merits & get any one majority in parliament – they form several coalitions in order to keep themselves in power – that is what the Antonia party has been doing for years – they have never had a clear majority in India & it seems that this time they are really finished since the Hindus are waking up to the fact that it is a dangerous ‘Govt’ which is extremely divisive & a disaster in foreign policies & especially when it comes to security for the country. The borders with Pakistan & Bangladesh are open despite people holding protests & campaigns to put an end to illegal Jihadi infiltration.
Here are some links which portray the real ground story..
http://intellibriefs.blogspot......maino.html
http://www.haindavakeralam.com
http://www.organiser.org/dynam.....38;page=23
http://www.organiser.org/dynam.....038;page=4
http://indiasecular.wordpress.com/
These are only few of the several Indian news websites that bring the true picture to the average Indian.
The reasons why Antonia handed power to ManMohan Singh is because
1] she can use him as her puppet – he’s just there with the strings in her hands since she’s the one who pulls all the shots in the Congress UPA
2] A person even if Indian but not born in India cannot ever be PM in India according to the Indian constitution – so that leaves her out totally
3] She was involved in the Office of Profit scandal
so KE, my friend, don’t be taken in with her croc tears – this woman has shady deals with her sister in Italy by abusing the position she’s in as she has been caught to transport art works, diamonds, gems etc from India worth billions of dollars & never paying the postage fees even – also for her close association with Quatrochi the guy who swindled Indians in multi million dollar deals including Bofors. She was nearly jailed these shady deals. Also, when her son Rahul was caught red handed & jailed in the USA for having drugs at the airport & she gave cash $200M for his safe return to India & keeping the press quiet. Did you know that neither her now her son are allowed back in the USA after that incident? She has made millions by running a network of antique thieves all over India who steal valuable idols of Hindu Gods and Goddesses from temples. She would send the idols to the Italian embassy in New Delhi. They would pack it and send it in the diplomatic baggage to Rome. There her sister Marouchka Maino would pick it up and sell it to American and Europe.
I’ll get you that insight into Indira ‘Gandhi’s’ background. You will be shocked my friend how gullible the Indians have been for 60 odd years..
Mzeiya,
Good to read ur post.
Yeah, I’m very worried about the Kales waging war in the RV. In fact the Telegraph.co.uk had the same story on the 14th feb, and they are blatantly quoting opposition guys are behind the ‘warriors’ who are planning war against kikuyus. What a shame! We are all kenyan whether I have Indian origin or Kiyuku etc. I sometimes go on that Nation blog – man, if you ever say anything against Raila/ Osama Balala or anything to do with Kibaki not to step down – there are these crazy ODMers who start frothing at the mouth at you immediately. You’re right – a break is needed indeed from Kenyan politics. I really have had it for 2 months now.
Raila is a very jealous & dangerous [deranged] guy. he pissed me off when that Eldoret church was burnt by Ruto’s henchmen & compared it to some football match & historical accounts being settled. WTF
How are the two guys – President & PM [Raila] going to work together? Raila has used his anti-Kiyuk stance to his advantage but not to the country’s advantage. Economically it is the Kiyuks who are more entrepreneul than any other Kenyan tribes. Just by going at what happened last month – no milk, no foodstuffs, no nothing on the shop shelves – we can tell what will happen to Kenya if they chase Kiyuks out of RV & places like that.
Can anyone tell me more about whether Mzee Jomo Kenyatta was responsible for dishing out land or are these just excuses & false allegations for them looters of Odinga Looter’s association?
Mzeiya, keep praying cos I am – i wanna see that Ruto being done proper for them innocent women & kids – 1000 of them. This swine needs to be jailed or sent off to the Hague with Raila & Co.
Many homegrown terrorists who link from mosques to Pakistani Mullahs, give them info on locations & business hubs so that bombs can be made in India & innocent Indians be blown up. Nothing woulld surprise me if they found out the UPA/Cong regime are with these criminal elements.
How do their supporters keep on behind these criminals – totally beyond me.
Yep, India has more Jihadis than Jihadistan..
BTW- coming back home, I’m optimistic that Kenya will get back to normal & life will go on. It has to.
KenyanGuy,
I can enlighten on the Kenyatta land deal. Yes, he did dish out land rewards to his few friends and family. Friends paid for the land but I don’t know if his family did tho’. That is the few who hold big acreage. I can for sure tell you that one can’t mention Kenyatta and land in the same breath — he didn’t see land that he didn’t want. He was quite greedy in that way. But for everybody else, nothing was for free! He simply didn’t believe in freebies! Maumau learnt the hard way!
However, you remember many kyuks were displaced during colonial era. Hence Maumau creation to drive the mokoloni out of Kenya. After independence part of agreement protected mokoloni and property. As for maumau they were never to get what they fought for they were displaced to land schemes in RV by Kenyatta, much against their will. The mokoloni who settled in RV also had actively recruited kyuks as farm hands (face it Kyuks work their A*@# off!), hence the next group of kyuks in RV. Then when mokoloni started living, they sold their farms to whoever could buy. These were expensive purchases too. Most kyuks formed cooperatives to buy these big farms and split into small parcels to the coops (the kyuks enterprising spirit at work!). Then you have the regular commercial land buyers between willing kale land sellers to kyuks.
My family lives in RV, close to Egerton, and people are still going on their business surrounded by kales with their threats. The Boran police provides effective protection. Kyuks protested after kale cops watched while people were being killed and their homes burnt…they told them to go burn their perpetrators home if they want…and I assume you may have heard what kale cops told women being raped in Kipkelion: Kazi iendelee. Yes, the kyuks are very, very slow to react. I guess they like to plan. I won’t say much about Ruto and Raila, but I will say I am angry at Kibz inability to respond to this RV crisis. He allowed a fire to become an inferno. So these kales walk around indignant believing they are above reproach and the law. Can you blame them? What has gava done to stop them. I am sure he has his sound reasons for not using the military. But for sure all those GSUs in NBI and Kisumu? And what have we seen in RV? Nothing. Having said that, it’s not as simple as we see it. RV is vast. They have been arming since Moi days. They have organized training camps. Infact they train in the forest behind one our farm. They are well-funded. They are extremely well-organized and led by ex military (probably active ones too). So, you can see it’s a precarious situation. But Kibaki has no excuse. There have been skirmishes during his 5yrs. He knows the history. He has had all the time to prepare for the insecurity. Who was over intelligence? Well, the price of being too busy with the economy has come to haunt him. I hope he is not slumbering while these people organize another attack. They should aggressively move in and start flexing their muscles before the grand marriage happens!
I feel helpless as all I can do is make endless calls to make sure my family & friends are okay. But they are now armed to the tee (rifles, guns, and you name it!). In the RV, majority feel they are either hostages or refugees. But guess who suffers most? Poor innocent children and women. God must be very angry right about now…
Peacemaker,
wow, good post.
I really agree with you that the gava’s intelligence arm has been sleeping. That Gichangi guy should be fired for the massive intelligence failure.
At times I think Kibaki is NAIVE in thinking that intelligence don’t play a major part in his presidency. I guess he thinks that if u build the eceonomy, everyone will be happy, which is not the case. There are people who will forever hate u despite your kindness and generosity toward them.
Kibaki needs to wake up and realize that these kalenjin militia are a real threat that need to be dealt with..i.e eliminated FOREVER! If he doesn’t deal with it comprehensivley, they’ll always be a menace to him, they’ll be like Kony’s army in the north of Uganda.
Jambo Peacemaker,
Thankyou indeed for your educative post. You’re very correct that Kibaki has no excuse. What angered me most was how he was so slow to react & how come when Martha Karua too claimed that the Govt knew there would be some sort of skirmishes, then why Kibaki didn’t prepare to avoid violence ? I was just watching them videos on NTV where they reckon most kids in the camps who have been separated from their parents are 4 yr olds left to fend for themselves. Yes Govt to blame. They need to sort this mess out quickly before its too late.
the economy is affected , who ever thought of starting the war never thought of the repercussions and now its the ordinary kenyan suffering.
Kenya: Country’s wealth in foreign hands
Article originally ran on East African Standard, Sunday April 17, 2005
The bulk of Kenya?s wealth is in foreign hands, according to statistics obtained exclusively by The Sunday Standard.
If Kenya were a cake to be shared out, Kenyans would only lay claim to 31 per cent of the country?s total wealth. The rest would go to foreigners.
Agriculture, tourism and banking, which combined bring in the country?s l argestearnings, are in foreign hands. Last year, tea, tourism, flowers and coffee earned the country Sh140 billion, nearly half of the annual national budget. Of this money, only 31 per cent ended up in the country ? as tax and real earnings to the nationals. And shareholding in the richest 20 companies that trade at the Nairobi Stock Exchange is foreign.
The skewed distribution of wealth between foreigners and Kenyans puts paid to all efforts since independence to hand control of the country to its citizens.
Tea growing, which earned the country Sh43.5 billion last year, is concentrated in the hands of six leading agricultural companies whose shareholding is largely foreign. Up to 78 per cent of earnings from tea went, therefore, to foreigners ? leaving the balance for Kenyans.
The Big Six in the tea sector are Unilever Tea Kenya, Kakuzi Ltd, Williamson Tea Company, Kapchorua Tea, Limuru Tea Company and Sasini Coffee and Tea.
The British-owned Brooke Bond Group holds 43.1 million shares of the total 48.8 million shares issued in Univeler Tea Kenya. The same group owns 54 per cent of the total 3.9 million shares issued in Limuru Tea Company.
In Kakuzi Ltd, foreigners have a total shareholding of 68.3 per cent of the total 19.6 million shares issued. They hold the shares through Bordure Ltd and Lintak Investment Ltd, with 35.1 and 33.2 per cent shareholding, respectively.
Britain?s Williamson family has a controlling majority shareholding in both Williamson Tea and Kapchorua Tea companies. In Williamson Tea, it holds 67.2 per cent of the total 8.8 million shares issued through their company, Ngong Tea Holding PLC.
In Kapchorua tea, they hold 40 per cent of the 3.9 million shares issued.
Sasini Tea and Coffee Ltd is 87.3 per cent owned by business magnate Naushad Merali, a Kenyan. Merali?s companies hold his shares in these businesses: Legend Investments Ltd (51.7 per cent), East African Batteries (18.7 per cent), Yana Towers (15.9 per cent) and Swan Estates (1.04 per cent).
The reinvigorated tourism sector, which earned Sh42 billion last year, is also foreign-owned.
And just as the Sh43.5 billion earnings from tea sector ended up in foreign pockets, so did the Sh42 billion that came from tourism. Tourism earnings went into three directions: Hotels, airlines, and travel/booking agents, in that order. Of Kenya?s 290,000-plus tourist hotel bed spaces, foreign hoteliers own 74.3 per cent of it.
Tour flights to Kenya are entirely in the hands of foreign airlines. It is all the more foreign-dominated in the traditional tourist peak periods of Easter and Christmas, when there are no scheduled flights to Kenya?s tourist hub of Mombasa. During the two seasons, tourists arrive in Mombasa in chartered jets arranged by European tour operators.
Foreign companies stationed in European and American capitals also entirely control hotel bookings and transfers. Where internal travel is concerned, foreigners too, dominate by owning 7 of the 11 leading local tour travel firms.
At the end of the day, tourism in Kenya remains a foreigners? enclave with indigenous Kenyans left to scratch the surface on petty trades like selling curios and prostitution.
After years of lobbying, last year the European Union set aside Sh250 million to economically empower indigenous Kenyans to get a fair share of the lucrative industry. Seven projects were targeted to tilt the balance in a programme called Tourism Diversification and Empowerment Project.
But a spokesman at the Nairobi EU office said the money is yet to be released as project proposals submitted are still under evaluation.
The only hotel chain listed on the Nairobi Stock Exchange is the TPS Serena. The Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development holds the company?s majority shareholding through its company, TPS Holdings Limited.
Horticulture, which earned Kenya Sh28.2 billion last year, is the country?s third largest foreign exchange earner. It, too, is a foreigners? affair. Indigenous Kenyans mainly come in as casual labourers on the flower farms.
Of the 44 certified companies dealing with horticulture products, 26 are foreign-owned. But an even bigger irony is that the leading 10 players in the industry ? all foreign-owned ? bag 83 per cent of the total income from the sector.
Flower farming (floriculture) is the key plank in Kenya?s agriculture sector. Seventy six per cent of Kenya?s total flower production is concentrated in foreign-owned flowers farms around the Naivasha area. The big three are Homegrown, Sulmac and Oserian.
Late last year, Kenya overtook Israel and Columbia as leading exporters of cut flowers. But you would not know that from the world?s leading flower auctions in Amsterdam and London. Why?
Foreign flower exporters in Kenya have registered their companies abroad ? mainly in Amsterdam ? and sell flowers they have grown in Kenya under a foreign label. In that case, while flowers from a local company are sold in Amsterdam as flowers from Kenya, Dutch companies growing their flowers in Naivasha sell theirs as flowers from Holland.
The consequence of it is that flowers owned by Dutch companies receive preferential treatment at the auction, including exemption from the strict EU-imposed export rules.
Flower auctions in Amsterdam and London account for 65 and 25 per cent of Kenya flower sales respectively. Of the approximate 60,000 tonnes of flowers exported from Kenya last year, 37,000 tonnes were sold in Amsterdam and London auctions as flowers from Holland.
The statistics can make it look like the entire flower industry in Kenya is one big conspiracy against indigenous people. Foreign air charters, the only ones used in flower transport, charge the highest rates in Nairobi. Freight charges on flowers from Kenya are twice those in the capitals of Kenya?s nearest competitors Israel, Columbia and Costa Rica.
There are also 40 to 45 per cent higher than in Egypt and South Africa, Kenya?s two biggest competitors on the continent.
At $400 a day, inspection and storage charges at Jomo Kenyatta International Airport are the highest in the world. So is the freight charge of $1.85-$2.2 per stem.
Flowers sold in Kenya?s name are inspected stem by stem at the JKIA at the cost of 12 Euro cents a stem. Those grown in Kenya but marketed by overseas-accredited companies are only inspected in bulk.
On average, it costs upwards of $1 million to set up a typical flower farm on a half acre spread , which in turn brings in a $50,000 a year.
Kenya?s fourth leading export earner, coffee, is equally depressing on the ownership scale. The majority of small-scale coffee growers in Kenya sell coffee raw from the farm, earning less than 10 per cent of what the finished end product earns in foreign markets and in a foreign label.
Though touted as an agricultural country, the other large-scale agricultural activities in Kenya are also foreign-owned.
Rea-Vipingo Plantations, which deals mainly in sisal and dairy farming is 77 per cent owned by the Robinson family of England. They hold the shares through REA Holdings PLC, Unibuckle Holdings Ltd and REA Trading Ltd.
Del Monte, world famous for pineapple products, is entirely a French affair and sells its products with the label “Made-in-France”.
The question of who owns Kenya?s wealth sticks out like a sore thumb in the banking sector. The leading two banks with a combined market share of 71.4 per cent are Barclays Bank of Kenya and the Standard Chartered.
They are foreign-owned. Barclays Bank plc of London owns 68 per cent stake in Barclays Bank of Kenya.
Standard Bank Africa, a London outfit, in turn owns 81 per cent shareholding in Standard Chartered Bank.
To avoid domination by foreign banks, Nigeria and South Africa enacted laws on percentages of shareholding a foreign bank could own.
Foreign ownership is also the same cord that runs through key blue chip companies listed on the Nairobi Stock Exchange.
At the East African Breweries, British-owned Guinness plc holds 63.5 per cent of the total equity, leaving Kenyans to scramble for the rest. Guinness shares are held in the names of Diageo Kenya Ltd and Diageo Netherlands B.V.
In the Nation Media Group, the Aga Khan holds 28.2 million shares of the 35.6 million shares issued. The Aga Khan?s shares are held in the names of the Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development and Amin Nanji Juma. In Kenya Airways, Dutch company, KLM, holds 40.6 per cent equity.
In Total Kenya Ltd, French companies Total Outre-mer and Elf Oil Kenya Ltd, own 77 per cent of the total shareholding, while in BAT Kenya Ltd, Molensteegh Investment BV of London, holds 68 per cent of the total shareholding.
The question of who owns Kenya?s wealth generated a national debate in 1968 when the National Council of Churches of Kenya published a paper entitled: “Who Owns Kenya?s Industry?” In the paper, the late Anglican Bishop, the Rev Henry Okullu, regretted that five years into independence, “the compass needle had not moved in the direction of indigenous ownership of Kenya?s wealth.”
Thirty-seven years later, the Rev Okullu would turn in his grave to note that the needle has drifted even further away.
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I think your article should be entitled “I want to talk about the economy among tribes”. Ridiculous deceiving article.
not very different from all the other political mambo jumbo circulating on this web site.
Is this web site not supposed to be for entrepreneurship in Kenya ?
I cannot seem to find a single article related to that without some political/tribal twist. Sad
Checking out your name i would have sworn you are an Indian-Asian. I must agree with you, worked for one and they are such a pain. I then worked for a kikuyu; he was worse than the Indian. I then opted to work for a milato-Goodness, he is the devil himself.
What is my moral of the story? In keny athere are only two tribes, the rich and the poor. Leave the asians, kikuyus, and Luos out.You should know that.
The credit crunch is being felt and i believe its imapact is yet to be felt. My friends and relatives have been retrenched. I am stuck in a poor paying job because i know when i leave there is a possibility i will not get any better.
We must learn how to hussle, struggle.this seems to be the order of the day.
Being a 3rd generation Kenyan muhindi Its a great dissapointment to read all these posts. I feel all the muhindis who remained back in Kenya after independence and who are still in this country have wasted their lives! Kenya does not deserve our contribution. We should look at our own motherland now and contribute towards the growth of India as a subcontinent atleast we will be appreciated and also treated with respect unlike here where we are treated like sh%$ !
Kenya should have never learned from us, now that we have made the mistake of teaching them lets bare the cost of our mistake!! Racism is not healthy for any country or even its people, but in Kenya where we have tribalism who in the world will be able to keep out racism!!
Keep thinking and someday you shall realise! We hope its not too late when you do realise!
Warm Regards
A Kenyan Indian/Muhindi if that makes it easier for you to recognise me!