Museveni on Democracy in Africa
Send this article to Twitter!
Here is a good speech by Yoweri Museveni making fun of Kenya’s illusion of democracy. Charity Ngilu doesn’t look very happy with him, but it’s a very interesting speech nonetheless.
Key question posed: Can a country remain agricultural and be stable? Can an agricultural country ever solve the needs of an expanding population? answer that question.
Nice question!…. Museveni had the best vision for the region (for those who have followed his vision from way back) i.e. in his understanding that as countries we are too small, but as a joint single force we are a power, a power not to be ignored. I guess his views are too ahead of his time…. for we are still too absorbed with feudal and tribal politics…
hehe!nice comments on our parties…
=========================
Can a country remain agricultural and be stable?
=======================
This is a loaded question. It presupposes that all agricultural countries are unstable. It also tries to argue that Correlation (developed countries are generally stable. Developed countries are seldom agricultural) leads to Causation (therefore agricultural countries cannot be stable).
This is false logic. Many non-agricultural states are unstable (e.g. Gulf, Eastern Europe etc)
========================
Can an agricultural country ever solve the needs of an expanding population?
=========================
Yet another example of a fallacious argument. The question is rhetorical, loaded and generalized.
1. Ever? suggests an impossible task. acceptance of defeat. why ask if you already know the answer? Hence the rhetorical & loaded nature of such a question.
2. What needs? Education? Health? Shelter? Food? and to what extent? Measured against what standard?
========
VERDICT
=======
These are the typical stereotypical “questions” used to reinforce negative lablels about Africa. In this instance the term “agricultural” is used instead of sub-saharan Africa in a rather dumb and unimaginative attempt at disguise.
If thats what Museveni’s Speech was about (self deprecation), I give the speech a 5/5 “Thumbs down” rating. Another reason why we need younger, Mentally FREE leaders in Africa.
What is Museveni’s answer to the question?
Please upload the other part of the speech so that we can have some context.
Q: Farming and stability?
A: If the population is mainly agrarian, it means that it is posibly a poor population because unless it is industrial agriculture and in that case, the people would use machines and the majority would do something else. If the people are poor because they only live hand to mouth, they are then prone to manipulation by those who own knowledge and political power like is the case of Kenya. Conclusion; An agricultural society cannot remain poor unless they have endless land for the youth to take and start their own families instead of subdividing their parents land. If they so do, they soon run out of space and end up in city slums looking for employment.
Q: Can an agricultural country ever solve the needs of an expanding population?
A: Yes, looking beyond land and investing in technology and a sound education. Fow stable source of food, a country needs to move from subsistence farming to industrial farming freeing labour and time to civilize the population and moving the economy into a service based economy.
Eric, Stability and exploitation are two different things. Perhaps the word “stability” needs to be defined before any meaningful answer can be given. Is stability:
a. the absence of war? Or
b . economic stability?
If (a) then there’s no direct relationship between the two issues (agriculture and political violence). Political instability in African was imported from industrialized nations. Empirical evidence goes against this false association (world war 1&2, not to mention Hitler’s holocaust for example).
Political stability is relative and too many variables are involved. A stable country today may not necessarily be stable tomorrow.
If (b) then the current economic crisis in the Western world would not exist.
Questions such as these are raised when people choose to ignore compelling evidence in order to further ulterior motives (propaganda).
Regarding your answer to Question 2.
If you look beyond land in into technology and education, then you stop being an “agricultural society” per se. Your answer is invalid because it responds to a question that is different from what was actually asked.
The question is not about WHAT an Agricultural society can do to ensure that it meets certain (unspecific) needs of its expanding population – but rather WHETHER an agricultural society can EVER solve these (unspecified) needs.
Maishanki:
I think you’re answers are becoming too theoretical and too academic
African countries have been independent for almost 50 years. At some point you need to stop blaming the west for all your problems.
And please don’t respond to this with a long winded theoretical answer
Kenya entrepreneur,
Can African countries still be stable with an ever growing population on Agriculture or farming ?
The Malthusian model is a good start in understanding this question.
And my answer is really simple
Any country with a fast growing population and is looking for long term stability has to move from agriculture as the main stay of the economy.
Failure to do this this will have severe ramifications which will be very painful.
The Chinese have harnessed the importance of the Malthusian model by using the one child one family rule. It is now projected that the Indian population will be more than the Chinese in the next 10yrs. This will be a big problem for the Indian government as it strives to feed a humongous population.
@KE
Sometimes we ask questions only to get answers we never expected to hear.
If your question was truly genuine, then it should be open to intellectual scrutiny and opposing views.
I contend that the west screwed up Africa. Nay, it’s a fact. They are still doing it in the name of “develoment assistance”. To digress a little, I advocate for cancellation of all aid to African countries. I propose instead that we have interest free payment holidays linked to strategic plans (e.g. 2030 vision). To me, removing the burden of repaying external debt is GENUINE development assistance – less damaging than MORE DEBT.
Now, back to your response: What is 50 years? Is it a long or short period? Relative to what? How long did it take the US, UK and other western governments to build the institutions that they have today? Yet those institutions are still flawed (else we wouldn’t have so much evidence of chaos and failure).
Keep in mind that we in Africa were forced to adopt other people’s customs, laws and systems. This is different from when you develop your OWN customs, laws and systems from the ground up! Not to mention the violent era of psychological, economic, racial and cultural suppression. We need to keep this disruption factor in perspective when making comparisons.
We need to understand that there was no therapy following the colonial trauma! AFRICA NEEDS TIME TO HEAL. Its not just about wealth, roads and tall buildings. It’s about the restoration of psychological damage inflicted on more than 2 generations.
That is not tantamount to allocating blame.
50 years. Hmmm.. that is merely 18,250 days. Divide that by the adult population (say 17Million) to get a manday rate and you will realize that in actual fact only 1.55 man-MINUTES have elapsed since independence.
Our country is still too young. Our laws and systems of administration are still largely colonial. Our population is still largely brainwashed. etc. etc. It is unrealistic to expect us to heal psychologically after merely 92.7 man-SECONDS.
“Riaga Omolo” is responding to your question exactly the way it was framed to be responded to: i.e. you have to accept the pre-supposition before you can answer.
For example if I ask you “Have you stopped beating your wife?”. How do you answer?
a. “No” (still beating your wife)? or
b. “Yes” (you used to beat your wife)?
Either way you are screwed.
The person asking the question has other motives – i.e. to convey to bystanders your own “admission” that you do (or used to) beat your wife. Such is the nature of the two questions above – hence the best way to respond is by exposing the motive of the asker.
Finally:- For “Riaga Omolo” to use ANCIENT THEORIES made in 1798 (wow!) to support his arguments is utterly ridiculous. That is more than 200 years ago! Are you saying knowledge has not advanced since?
It’s time for mental decolonization in Africa.
KE
Do not dismiss Maishinski’s contribution because I believe that she/he has raised some salient points. Address the issues instead of saying that the contribution is too theoretical.
The western model that you aspire to is also based on extensive academic theories and daily policy discussions.
Africans need to understand the world around them before they can even begin to get anywhere. They are living in a dangerous neighbourood and thay have to adapt.
Has it occured to you that China and India have been “allowed” to “develop” because thay have a nuclear arsenal?
Think about it.
KE, You have activated comment moderation… anything to do with media bill?
You may gag me on your blog – but I can always publish elsewhere. Media bill or no media bill.
Maishiski
I guess you are Maish (maina) but added the ski to WHAT ? any way thats out of the topic
KE asked
Can a country remain agricultural and be stable?
I undestand this to mean can it perpeualy remain agriculatural for ever without crushing !!!
The important word KE meant is REMAIN……..
I would actauly say wer are NOT yet agricultuaral country..we are in the peasant state!!!!
RELATIVE to what…Realtive to the world …Maiskhinksi if you think AFRICA is not in the WORLD then you need to be RECOLONISED
Long syntaxes are used to obscure logic…pls lets be brief to the point…unless you have TIME to burn…No wonder fifty years 50YRS is NOTHING
LoL! @ lord… you’re way out of your league.
Cheers!
hahaha! Why does KE always have to expalain himself. Cant he get it right first time?
Lets get the facts right:
Museveni actually wanted to know whether Polarization is better handled when groups are separate – or when groups are within a coalition. He was alluding to the lack of understanding aand copy/paste solutions imposed by the west on Africa.
His second question was in response to commonwealth’s “sustainable development” catch phrase. Can someone have sustainable pregnancy? Essentially telling them to bugger off with their half baked theories.
These are words of great wisdom from Museveni. It’s a pity that KE got it all jumbled up – thereby inciting Maishinski.
Annon#1:
The reason I have to keep explaining my points is because people are either not reading the pieces fully or they are reading them in a hurry and missing essential elements within the pieces. This is quite unfortunate because I do make an effort to write pieces that are crisp, clear and simple so people can follow them without much struggle.
In some ways, I’m also beginning to believe that many Kenyans are just not regular readers and so if you talk about something and they don’t even have a basic understanding of the subject matter, you may be forced to explain things over again, but the second time around, include the basic information which you assumed they had, but which they didn’t have.
I think I’m going to do a piece about reading or the lack of a reading culture amongst Kenyans.
Annon #2:
I think you are the one who got it somewhat jumbled up. Museveni’s entire political premise rests on the notion that democracy cannot work in pre-industrial societies. So, the first goal for African countries (he believes) is to move the economies out of the pre-industrial age and then, once there is a sizable, middle class that is literate, you can introduce democracy.
Lord:
Thank you for getting the point.
Maishanki:
Okay. You win.
**I keep telling people that some comments end up in the pending file if you insert more than one link in them or if you use an IP address, which may get flagged. So, if you don’t see your comment appearing immediately, just be patient because I have to go in and actually move them out of the pending folder.
@KE
Its not about winning but about sharing ideas. I am always open to honest debate.
Secondly, you wrote:
“many Kenyans are just not regular readers and so if you talk about something and they don’t even have a basic understanding of the subject.”
And this amazing conclusion about an entire nation was arrived at based on your assumption of how people read your blog post?
…and how many different people contribute to your blog – maybe 20 at the most?
Assuming 20 (optimistic), your conclusions would be based on a sample of “0.00005555555555555560″. Barely representative of 36M population.
You assume all your readers are Kenyans
No control experiment to validate your conclusions.
Lets not be hasty in judging. Jesus said: You look at the speck in your brother’s eyes – and forget about the LOG in your own eyes. (or something to that effect).
Is M7′s alternative prescription to democracy his NRM’s corrupt and nepotistic ways?
On his question, its possible as long as you are able to find more inventive ways of producing food…
What is democracy – really? Rule by consensus?
US claims to have one of the most mature and advanced democracies… but for some reason, the american people felt cheated by Bush’s unilateral actions.
Am not even gonna go into human rights issues… but ask yourself, why doesn’t the USA agree to subject itself to the ICC/Hague (something they prescribe to other countries)?
Why does the US/UK quietly support some obvious dictatorships… and condemn others who may not even fit the definition of dictators?
US has freedom of information & speech, yet americans so ignorant about the rest of the world… is this by accident or by design? Remember, people argue that “what you don’t know doesn’t hurt you” / “Ignorance is bliss”. Aren’t these principles of ignorance being used to hoodwink US citizens to think they live in Paradise and everywhere else is hell?
Just pointing out glaring inconsistencies. I have nothing against them…
Point: “Democracy” and “Freedom”. Two powerful words whose interpretation is a matter of convenience and perception. Leaders, globally, can and do change perceptions for their convenience.
Maishinski,
You have some interesting points…but take a course to learn how to summerize..Learn how to eliminate redundance and keep ideas clear and to the point.
Hahaha true. Thanks Mwalimu.