Producing “Stuff”
Now, that the stock markets around the world seem to be collapsing, I want to return to talking about the production of real things (or “stuff”), Why? because (as we are painfully discovering), real economies are created by those who produce real things, not those who shuffle “paper” money around the world that’s created from thin air.
In this discussion I will return to the teachings of Lee Kwan Yeuw, the former prime minister of Singapore because he transformed a third-world mosquito infested swamp into a rich developed city state within one generation.
So, let us begin.
Lee Kwan Yeuw puts it thus: Before distributing a pie, I had to first bake it.
Meaning what?
Production precedes distribution. If you don’t produce, even after equitable distribution, you will still be dirt poor.
Simple isn’t it? But this simple truth eludes many communists and socialist governments. They want to distribute first and then perhaps maybe produce some stuff if they feel like it. They have not figured out that poverty is lack of what I call “stuff.” If you don’t have stuff, you are poor. Producing sufficient amounts of stuff is a necessary condition; the sufficient condition is to distribute it equitably.
When production is insufficient, then there is a mad scramble for the limited production. The powerful get hold of this stuff, and the majority of the people have to eat dirt. That is, a very lop-sided economy develops when there is insufficient production of stuff: a few very rich people lording it over hoards of abjectly poor people (this is what you have in Kenya today).
So the lesson is simple: make the production of stuff the first priority. However, in order to make the production of stuff a priority, you need:
1) A manufacturing sector with production capacity, not employment capacity. If you produce enough stuff, you can give stuff away to “unemployed” people. On the other hand, if the obsession is with employment, and if this employed population produces zilch, then all can be employed and yet all can be dirt poor. So, instead of Raila and Kibaki saying jobs, jobs, jobs, they should be saying, production, production, production.
2) Good infrastructure: To produce stuff you need good infrastructure. You cannot produce much with your bare hands. So you need factories, you need power to run those factories. You have to have roads and ports and airports to bring inputs to the factory and take the output out. Invest in infrastructure.
What else do you need? You tell me….
May be another thing we need is an enabling market conditions so that this ’stuff’ can easily be converted to ‘better stuff’ – money. reduced business hurdles and friendly taxation to encourage the producers to produce even more.
HR my dear
..Yes HR….Kenyans often LIE that the singaporeans or Koreans we were supposed to be equal at indipendence was but a PURE lie… They were light years away
HR means people with a high IQ not the so called Kenyans who call themselves learned when they learn accounts or Law……….. This people produce ZERO
TIRING
infact am begining to get fatigued…….There was a time i argued LUOS alone in this country are the just about to take off group….
they have
Great work ethic (relative to other kenyans)
Honest (relative to other kenyans)
Do produce stuff & services
ie
Building industry
Engeenering & Motor veicle mentainance
carpentry & joinerry
Clothing & Textile…….
The rest of KENYANS are BUT dinosours….going no where
@ Lord
When you start putting across your point using tribes you reveal to us how narrow minded you are, something that you should do your best to conceal to the rest of us
@KE
You are right, we need to produce stuff
Infrastructure (Road, Rails, Ports, Transportation & Communication(ICT)), invest in education especially in sciences, maths and technical courses and emphasis on research which will lead to innovation and improve human resource capacity, Cheap and efficient energy (must be available 98% of time, no frequent power cuts), Security & Judiciary that works( it encourages investors), zero tolerance on corruption…in other words we have a big room for improvement
@noni
Its unfortunate that you believe the word tribe is EVIL(Kenya really messed you up with its hypocrisies borne of inequities) …Never use the word narrow minded …Just face the facts..These Luos are the best artisans,stone dressers,massons,taillors mechanics etc….They drive Nairobis (kenyas) Jua Kali system….(unless you dispute this……)
Its because of these overwhelming evidence that i can ASSERT that they “LUOS” are the ideal communty(indigeneoues) for an industrial takeoff…in the spirit of what KE said ie PRODUCING STUFF
There is nothing tribal or narrow minded abou above. Its just reporting facts.
JUST sometimes try to take the GAME UP a beat please.
KE,
To produce “stuff” I guess you need resources. Which are not evenly distributed.
One thing I suggest is the government needs to begin holding Forums with the Youth and introduce the new ideas to the youth, even if they seem not interested. Hidding the numbers will not help. All the Ps’s need to start FORUMS with the Youth and tap on their ideas.They keep hiding and ignoring the numbers and reality and mortgaging Kenya’s youth’s future through debts among other futile moves.
The government needs to make forums a culture in the country that way when Kenyans travel abroad they can be more enlightened and equipped on how to improve the situation. All we hear is the media. There are no Forums. In fact there are more Forums outside the country about issues in the country than there are inside the country. Instead of the government muzzling the media, why don’t they go straight to the youth and ask them what ideas they have on improving the situation. We don’t want any politicians in such Forum’s we only need experienced technocrats and the youth period. The Kenya we want Forum was just a public relations exercise we need Forums to be part of our culture not some political brinkmanship vehicle.
The other problem is that the people with Big farms and firms in Kenya think that if they share what they know and have done with the youth then they will not improve. I dare any large scale farmer or modern entrepreneur in Kenya to come here in the West and recruit young Kenyans and see if they’ll not blow off their record.
Their is no incentive in the part of the government to encourage the youth. Their is not clear way of the Youth participating in improving what is already there. The people who made it in their fields in Kenya are sitting on opportunities and knowledge which if shared with the Youth would improve them and maybe the country could have a better chance. These may be some of the reasons why we are still struggling with same recurring problems in producing “stuff”, which other parts of the world have been able to overcome.
@Lord
You are still insisting to continue narrow minded mindset. You just sat down and made and researched or observation that the Luo are the most productive ones…..
I think you need to soul search yourself and ask yourself why you came to that conclusion before its too late for you.
But since you insist, for now the Indian community leads in the manufacturing sector. Name it, from cement, to steel works, glass, food processing etc. The second would be the kikuyu. Though the dominate business, they are less is in manufacturing, but as far manufactring is concerned they come second to Indians especially in food processing and agribusiness. The we can add the Multinationals though most have left the country because of unfavourable conditions and downgraded their offices here to be for sales and distribution.
By if we are talking about Jua Kali looking down an micro smes, yes Luos are great artisans(and the comprise a good majority here but not to say other tribes are not in it too) and most of the time my mechanic is a LUO. But I see the Kambas also producing alot of artefacts especially in the Coast, I see Maasais with their beads and arts…..You get my point..Every community is doing their part. What KE is simply stating here is we need more manufacturing industries and thus we are discussing on how to improve the business climate to attract investments in this area be there local investors or Foreign Investors.
@noni
if you read carefully you could have noticed (indigeneous)…..remove the asians & erupeans
1) Kikuyus! manufacturing! Jesus what are you smoking!!!? Kikuyus strictly are CONVEYANCE people…They dominate hawking …bazzar….stuff
(zero production)….Just give a Kikuyu something ready….then his business starts there
Thanks you agree
The Luos dominate all Jua kali…..
Just give them their due they the only Kenyan comunity ready for an industrial take off…does not need any rocket science
Making Mask,Soup stones (thouh production) does come anywhere near the skills these lake people have aqcuired…..Go to all Asian industries…The guys at the back are LUOS………fact…..or just try getting a job in industrial area if you are not Luo
Lord: f you read carefully you could have noticed (indigeneous)…..remove the asians & erupeans
1) Kikuyus! manufacturing! Jesus what are you smoking!!!? Kikuyus strictly are CONVEYANCE people…They dominate hawking …bazzar….stuff
(zero production)….Just give a Kikuyu something ready….then his business starts there
Hilarious
But on a more serious note, Kikuyu’s are farmers and farmers are real producers in that they are growing a commodity that will always be in demand. i.e. food. In fact, one could argue that farmers (of any tribal group) are the only real producers in Kenya. So, revise your statement in light of this new angle.
Yes, many of the hawkers in Nairobi are Kikuyu, but that’s not were their real wealth comes from. It comes from their land.
In terms of Luo’s being the real manufacturer’s, I don’t know about that. Luo’s have always been known as the intellectuals of Kenya. Do intellectuals produce anything? You could argue that you need them because afterall, who is going to do the teaching in the universities? So, maybe their real relevance in Kenya is in producing a well educated populace, which is important.
I had always associated jua kali with Luhya’s. Isn’t the problem with jual kali the lack of automation? I mean, how many things can you really produce by hand?
** I’m surprised no one has mentioned the rule of law. Eventually, as you begin to modernize, you need this. People need to know that their investments will be protected. This is very important for long-term planning.
Shukri i couldnt agree more with you. Why are asians way much ahead in producing than other kenyans? Everthing we consume is produced by muhindi. why? We can go to china and india and buy the same machines they use to produce things. But do we do that?
I know, many Asians got favours from the British during colonial times but shouldnt we be catching up by now?We leave the big cakes like ,industrial production, property development, car imports and car assembly , energy import and many importants fields to asians.
We remain with small businesses. I think We kenyans and africans as general suffer from luck of belief of ourselves. We lack the “yes we can mentallity”. We dont think BIG.
Now can we stop this craps of invoking tribes in this debate. At this time and day and age, that should be our least of concerns. We leave in a global village. Kenya is no longer for the 42 tribes but for anyone willing to be a Kenyan and be a citizen.
All
Asians only dominate in your region i.e. East and some parts of Central and Southern Africa.
If you go to West and North Africa, there are no Asians dominating business. There is actually an African business class doing all the things that Asians are doing in Kenya e.g. manufacturing, construction, financial services etc. Try Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone etc. I have been there – I am speaking from experience.
It is not about tribes and nationalities – it is about taking advantage of the opportunities available to you.
Lord
You appear to be fixated on the idea of tribes in Kenya.
God, am glad I don’t think like that. I only remember I am a Kikuyu when someone mentions it.
Thank God for these small graces.
Kei O,
Surely you are not going to compare Indians and Africans in Business ?
Search google see how many African owned Multinational companies you can come up with and do the same for India. That out to shut you up.
Which city is this you live in ? – because I know there are Indian Multimillionaire’s and Billionaires businesses in virtually every big city in the United States. Comparing an Indian businessman with a Kikuyu one is an Insult to the Indians business Acumen.
Go Read Forbes Magazine and stop living in Denial !!
Jagdish
I don’t have time for that kind of nonsense.
I am actually above that tripe.
Next, please.
JAGDISH,
You are missing Kei O point. I think he meant Indians in a particular region, not global. Just like I can point out Kikuyu Millionaires in America (trust me they are many) but that’s NOT the real picture of Kikuyus globally. Get it? Indians in East Africa are not the same as their counterparts in West Africa businesswise. Thats a fact!
KeiO and Dee Eat the Oreo Cookie and Swallow it ,
“Get it? Indians in East Africa are not the same as their counterparts in West Africa businesswise.”
The Oreo Cookie, “People stop living in denial- I totally support what Lord is saying.”
“Kikuyus! manufacturing! Jesus what are you smoking!!!? Kikuyus strictly are CONVEYANCE people…They dominate hawking …bazzar….stuff”
The Oreo Cookie, “Thats all Kikuyu’s are known for- Conveyancing.”
I am not missing any point. I want you to chose any THE RICHEST KIKUYU GUY IN THE WORLD- AND I WILL SHOW YOU A 20 YEAR OLD INDIAN WITH THE SAME KIND OF MONEY OR EVEN A SIXTEEN YEAR OLD.
WAKE UP YOU BONEHEADS!!
I’m a Kikuyu and this is the reason why Kikuyu’s will never get anywhere in business. They never accept competition. The question you should have asked is how do they do it ?- Instead of speaking a set of ignorant lies.
Compe ni compe roho safi ! Accept it and stop living in DENIAL.
You people,
I live here in the UK and there are Kenyan born Indians here who would out rank most of Kenyan Businessmen.(They are many here). Some of them have already passed the 200Million Pound mark.
I think also there are some Ugandan’s who are richest in East Africa more than Kenyans. I guess its because they have stayed in power for longer time with Museveni.
Oreo Cookie: I want you to chose any of THE RICHEST KIKUYU GUY IN THE WORLD- AND I WILL SHOW YOU A 20 YEAR OLD INDIAN WITH THE SAME KIND OF MONEY OR EVEN A SIXTEEN YEAR OLD.
Okay. Let’s see.
Phillip Ndegwa.
Now show me a 16 year old Indian who is richer than him.
I’m curious about whether it’s even possible for someone based in a relatively small country like kenya, to even come close to acquiring the wealth of a guy like Mukesh Ambani. I mean, India has one billion people and it’s the 4th largest economy in the world.
The reason I am asking the above question is because it focuses on this crucial issue of production. You’d have to produce something that could sell outside of Kenya because 40 million people, 50% of whom are living in poverty, is not a big enough market.
All,
Here are the Under 40 yrs billionaires India list-
Please tell KeiO and Dee to read this so that they can start producing “Stuff”- You people in America cannot complain now. If you are in the west then you can’t complain about corruption or lack of conducive business enviroment . The buck stops with you- Whether you wanna Improve yourself or keep pointing fingers at your country men- Its your choice.
Here is the list.. And please start producing “Stuff”
http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/.....young.html
Thanks
Jagdish,Cookie,Yagnesh
We have a problem here (Africa). Some people think by admiting the truth you become inferior…Actually its the other way round!!
Of all Kenyan communities Luos are ones near producing stuff ( They are still way down but in the right direction)..
Philph Ndegwa…
Please what bizs does Ndegwa do! I think he was governer of Centarl bank jut after Independence…..If one traces his money it will end up in the Taxpayers …you know what i mean….All the super rich Kikuyu and all other Africans are NOT bizmen but thiefmen…….
Farming
Ke ..farming though (it is production) is the lowest form of producing stuff…
1) Get a seed
2) put it in well tilled soil on a farm
3) Pray for rains
Kwisha
Its a kin to bringing up the human young ones…..No brainer
KE
The greatest ingredient to producing STUFF is CULTURE
Culture is the basis of
1) work ethic (to steal or not and how hard to work)
2) basic Honesty
3) Rule of law
Without a cultural foundation a people have NO foundation……
The Asians & Europeans do well because their lives ROTATE around a very strong cultural values….
Take honesty for example…
..Indians conduct business among themselves on basis of strenght of ones character….one can get unsecured 1 milion USD from a stranger without any
guarantor….
Europeans shake hands and look each other in the eye (its not a fashion but a practice traceable to their chivalric era ). The word Lady or Gentleman to them means a trustworthy woman or Man
Somalis….Are doing well beacuse they base their conduct on Islam and gives them some honesty…….
WITHOUT ANY culture of your own YOU WILL ALWAYS pay through the nose
Lord, JaG Dish et al
I suggest you visit India and witness the poverty there before you yap about a few Indian millionaires.
If Indians are so good – why is it that millions of Indians are trying to escape from India??????
*****
Lord
If you think Europeans are honest – then I doubt your sanity and your intellectual capacity as well.
Europe’s foundation lies in colonialism and an unfair international trading system. The international finance and trading system has now almost collapsed. The balance of power is shifting to the far east – specifically China.
In other words, Europe and America are BROKE. This is information in the public domain.
Lord, where do you live???? In a cave in Tora Bora mountains????
*****
Some of you people are morons – sorry to use that word.
You have no capacity to think and analyse and you think everybody else is like you.
KeIo
some Indians may be poor but it DEPENDS if you can FIGURE figures
450 Million indians Live Below poverty line
24 Million Kenyans Live Below poverty Line
Its up to you to figure who is poor………
The European & Americans Courts still DISPENSE Justice ( I thought you practice LAW there)
Why dont you JUST COME HOME where you can PURCHASE JUSTICE…………..and save yourself the THINKING which i doubt how you do given you inablity to figure
BTW
(it was only Yesterday when Karua (minister justice) called Chief Justice Gicheru incompetent and should resign…….Predictably he(Gicheru) said “Me ,Resign ,Never”
This is what you said
If Indians are so good – why is it that millions of Indians are trying to escape from India??????
Why are you & thousands of others outside your ancestral homes ? practising in the west!!!
Appologise please
Lord
European and American courts DISPENSE Justice????
Let me laugh first – hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
You are even more ignorant than I thought.
Yes, I do practise law here and that is why I am even in a better position to tell you that there is NO JUSTICE. OK??? COMPRENDE????
What is JUSTICE? This is one the modules you study for your basic Law degree, you moron.
LAW has nothing to with JUSTICE, you moron.
Law has do with the functioning of society and maintenance of the status quo, not JUSTICE. Go figure. Or is that too tall an order for you?
*******
Kenya is a very good country. Unfortunately, it is populated by many morons.
I always enjoy it there when I come for a visit. Life is short and I cannot to be moaning and whinging all day and night.
I make some money, then enjoy it.
I would advise you to do the same, you moron.
Instead of dwelling on – this tribe did this, that tribe did that. That is a moronic approach to life – you moron.
Do not blame me if you are poor. I did not make you poor. You can lift yourself out of poverty.
KeIo
I meant justice as a civilised man knows!! (that justice rooted in culture). Yes the justice that would be dispensed by great great grandfather who was never SCHOOLED……Justice that God ,Jesus,Nkai will dispense……
The justice you mention is too tall for me to figure…..As for you being a Moron….let the readers DECIDE
Money
I can sense you are not doing well on that front because you luck small graces…..
Lord
I don’t know where you went to school – but they did not teach you how to spell let alone construct a sentence that is grammatically correct.
I do not blame you. It is the system that you operate in i.e. mediocre.
But tell me Lord, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you cannot even express yourself?
I suggest you read this book:
Eats, Shoots and Leaves
Lord
What is a “civilised man”?
What are you smoking?
Can you not deploy a coherent and cogent argument?
Sorry, I do not suffer fools gladly these days.
Kei O:
I have been following this discussion (or should I say, argument) between you and Lord.
I am surprised (that as a lawyer) you are not more willing to acknowledge the role of culture and governance into your interpretation of law. Those case books are filled with discussions on broader public policy issues because everyone knows that the law is a reflection of a societies culture. It is simply a set of rules that a particular society decides will govern it.
And you cannot have an honest discussion on African poverty without looking at this issue of culture. Lew Kwan Yeuw himself has contributed not just Singapore’s success, but china’s growing success to culture and he’s talked about this frequently (read his biography). He says, that if you look at both societies, you will see that the culture is similar since Singapore is a majority Chinese country. Anyway, both cultures are based on the Confucius philosophy, whose teachings are at the core of basic Buddhist doctrine, which is their primary religion).
Kwan Yew does mention Africa in his book and although he doesn’t explicitly say it, you can pick up on his hints about why he has low expectations for the continent: He doesn’t believe they have the culture. He mentions Kwame Nkurumah and not in a very good light. He knew him quite well. They were in school together in London and both took over their countries at the same time. The results speak for themselves.
KE
Culture is important. But it is not an abstract concept. You must take into account the set of values that make up the culture. This is something we studied in Jurisprudence during our Law degree years.
Of course, culture is important. What I don’t agree with is the assertion that Europe has an “honest” culture. This is not true for obvious reasons. I do not even need to explain anything.
What Lord should concede is that the culture of GREED is what has made Europe rich. It is not to do with honesty or justice.
That is why I was a bit harsh with Lord.
As for the TRUE African culture, you will agree with me that it is largely a culture of SELFLESSNESS. This is what has made Africans vulnerable to predators from all over the globe.
I have lived in small villages in Europe where the people are very hostile, inhospitable etc. The reverse is true in Africa.
Perhaps Africans should be more SELFISH and GREEDY. Then they will be respected.
Kei O,
So true. Naomi Klein wrote a book titled the Shock Doctrine that expands further on the culture of greed, and did a book review on http://www.pdxjustice.org/node/19 that I found most informative. There are other book reviews that are even more to the point on the site.
KE
Property rights come to mind. Kenyans will not invest for the long term if it is so easy to dispossess each other – women for example are primary producers but largely do not own the means of production. The numbers of dispossessed orphans and widows also means we do not build from generation to generation but constantly go back to the starting block. Losing a generation’s work is a loss of 30 years of advancement.
I guess this comes under Kainvestor’s enabling environment.
Noni,
Kwani how many books do you read in a day. Everyday you always producing new Titles for people to read.
What are you really trying to study ?
We can probably help. Since too much study a times can be wearisome and wasteful use of productive time, may be you could save time by asking us what answers you are looking for in those books ?
P.s – Stay away from all those New Thought Movement books- They just write them to make a best seller and not help the reader.
Short Change. Yibi Yubu !!
Kei O: Perhaps Africans should be more SELFISH and GREEDY. Then they will be respected.
They are very selfish and greedy when it comes to stealing money. Examples abound. Take your pick from Kenya’s never ending list of political thieves.
Short Change: Kwani how many books do you read in a day. Everyday you always producing new Titles for people to read.
I’ve always maintained that Kenyans have an aversion to reading, especially outside of the traditional school setting.
That’s why we’ve become a country with no real culture. We are corrupted both internally and externally with colonized names, a colonized religion and fake colonized accents.
Ke,
Since you seem to be leading the reading bandwagon.
What are the best three books in “decolonizing the mind” have you read ?
Answer this question and do not give some required textbook for a class you took at college or university.
Ps. And No New Age Movement stuff.
KE
I am surprised that you too do not get my bigger argument. Of course there are alot of examples of INDIVIDUAL African thieves.
What I am talking about though, is a THIEVING COLLECTIVE, a thieving CULTURE e.g. a whole country going on a THIEVING expedition, colonising territories and looting their resources.
What I am talking about is GROUPS of countries with similar THIEVING CULTURES coming together and crafting SELFISH international trading agreements which they are ready to forcefully ENFORCE with military power e.g. EU, NATO etc.
A Kenyan minister stealing is also a victim of the WESTERN culture of greed. The money always ends up in EU & US and it is NEVER returned.
Do you get my point?
KeIo
Germany Us,Uk,France etc therefore agreed on
1) Rules to steal from each other and with each other
2) Enforce this rules in the respective courts of Law
3) Ensure rule of LAW is respected throughot the EU and NATO so as to keep the theiving culture
4) Work in cohorts with Afican thieves so that the money ends up in EU
Lord
Yes indeed they did agree to STEAL with each other.
Read your history and you will see the Berlin Conference of 1884 when European powers sat down and shared the world between them.
They then had bitter disgreements over the spoils and had World War 1 and World War 2. This made them realise that stealing with each other is better than stealing from each other. They established NATO and EU immediately after World War 2.
They also established the World Bank and the IMF in the aftermath of WW2. These are the two institutions that have been accused of giving undue advantage to the rich and powerful nations at the expense of the poor nations such as your own.
When you people fight over scraps of land in the Rift Valley (or wherever), you behave like two rats fighting in a cage.
What galls me is when you Lord display such an ignorance of simple facts of history.
How can you progress if you do not even understand your past?
KeIo
Thats beautiful….
let me see how to reply to you
KeIo
I realise it might be hard for you to see the contradiction in your denial of presesence of Justice in Western world viz a viz Kenya…Introducing kenyas scenarios which are parallel with your world view will only SPIN you further.
So forget my previous examples that were meant to cajole your mind
Let me try this
Let us accept as a fact your perception of Western culture. ie
it is
1) Thieving ,predatory culture that somehow does NOT bite (prey on ) itself
We can paraprhrase much more accurately as an IMPERIALISTIC culture
accepted……
So dont you think it qualifies as a culture?
You have admited (though not on words) that they rligiously follow this to the letter and through their legal system its jelously protected
KENYA
Lack of culture is wha is LACKING….
beacuse
1) one can purchase justice to achieve any outcome ? (no guiding cultural principles)
Its because of THIS that I and to some extent KE put CULTURE as a kardinal
requirement to produce an ENVIROMENT that will enable people dwell on making products profitably…..instead of CONVEYANCING
Conveyancing…is not an ilegal trade anywhere only it entail the least production of all hence least profitable(many people can do)
I would be glad if you were a top notch lawyer in the west( dispenser of justice) rather than just another guy with a briefcase ful of rubber stamps, ink pads and foolscaps (conveyor)
Short Change: Ke,Since you seem to be leading the reading bandwagon.What are the best three books in “decolonizing the mind”have you read ?Answer this question and do not give some required textbook for a class you took at college or university.Ps. And No New Age Movement stuff.
I don’t read New age movement stuff and I’m not quite sure what you mean by books on “decolonizing the mind”.
My basic point was that people have a right to read whatever it is that interests them and reading is always better than non-reading.
Unless you have actually been to a Kenyan court… shut the ‘f’ up… about ‘justice’ in Kenyan courts!
Kenyan courts are a bloody nightmare!
And as regards the argument that India (or China) can produce billionaires coz it has 1 billion+ people while Kenya can’t coz it has 35 million… that is silly coz the richest Indian (Mittal) made most – if not all – of his money OUTSIDE of India… Well, the UK, Germany, Australia, etc has many, many millionaires… (Australia’s population is smaller than Kenya’s)
And using that stupid argument… Hong Kong (among other countries/areas) should have no billionaires. And Singapore is an example… no/few resources but HARD WORK & “CLEANLINESS”.
KeiO: Stop bandying about your ignorance… West Africa is full of Lebanese business groups! If not for the endless coups in West African countries, the presence would be greater. Furthermore, I have seen Tata (Indian) trucks all over W.Africa esp Ghana. And many of the ‘Nigerian’ businesses have Indian managers. And these are black Nigerian owned businesses… (BTW, if any country is more corrupt than Kenya = Nigeria)
And the main reason for Indians in East Africa was ‘transport’ as in… the ease of sailing over to the East coast of Africa as well as Arabs using Mhindis as accountants & moneylenders. And the Brits importing labour.
Lord
You have a good sense of humour – rubber stamps, inkpads and foolscaps! Heheheheheee.. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a foolscap to be honest.
We use databases, wordprocessors, spreadsheets etc. I cannot say I am the very best in what I do, but I can tell you that I very good at what I do. I am sure that you can already tell that.
Now, back to the discussion.
I dont get it when you say that the West does not prey on its own. Let me tell you something my friend, EU and USA are full of poor people. Ofcourse, poverty is relative but it is true that it is only a minority that are rich in these countries.
I can certainly tell you that there are some very poor people in the UK who just rely on state handouts and charities.
A thinker once told me that the only reason that EU countries provide state handouts is to prevent RIOTING. And I believed him, when I examined the situation closely. There would certainly be RIOTS in the UK if there were no state benefits for the poor. Mind you the state benefits are designed to keep you JUST satisfied – basically keep you alive.
You seem to be under the misconception that ALL IS WELL in EU and USA. It is not the case, my friend.
By the way, you can purchase “justice” in the EU. The rich people always get the BEST lawyers. Furthermore, sensitive cases can also be terminated by the Attorney General.
A recent case in the UK is the Saudi Arms deal, where a UK company was involved in corruption with some powerful Arabs. The Arabs tthreatened to spill the beans unless the case was terminated and guess what happened – the UK Attorney General terminated the case.
We know better, my friend. This is why I always tell you to leave Kenya, even its just for 5 years. You will learn alot.
Keio,
Unemploment benefit does NOT equal giving hand outs.
You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about many things.
Kei O: It is not the case, my friend.By the way, you can purchase “justice” in the EU.The rich people always get the BEST lawyers.Furthermore, sensitive cases can also be terminated by the Attorney General.A recent case in the UK is the Saudi Arms deal, where a UK company was involved in corruption with some powerful Arabs.The Arabs tthreatened to spill the beans unless the case was terminated and guess what happened – the UK Attorney General terminated the case.
A UK firm bribed to get the deal. The benefit accrued to the UK i.e. jobs to UK, etc… Corruption is wrong but the UK’s government figured the UK benefits!
In Kenya, the Kenyan bastards (MPs, ministers, etc) sell us out to the Chinese, Libyans, Indians, etc… so we lose Kenyan jobs to the others… there are NO benefits that accrue to ordinary Kenyans!
Kei O: By the way, you can purchase “justice” in the EU. The rich people always get the BEST lawyers.
Well, the rich get the best of everything. That’s why everyone wants to be rich!
However, in court cases, the disparity in wealth is most pronounced when you have the following scenario’s:
A poor client vs. a very rich client (here, the one with money will win).
A rich client vs. another rich client (here, it will be more equal).
A poor client vs. another poor client (again, here, it will be more equal).
When you say that one can purchase justice in Europe, maybe you need to make a distinction between civil cases and criminal cases. I think that even with money, if you commit a criminal offense, it will much tougher to just get off scotch free.
In Kenya, even if you murdered someone, you could get off if you had enough money to bribe. Look at cholomdeley. Do you think he’d get away with that in England?
KE
There is also the issue of class especially Europe.
A poor working class client vs a poor aristocrat (the aristocrat has the upper hand)
A rich working class client vs a rich upper class client (the upper class client has the upper hand)
My point is that the issue of justice is not as clear cut as some would have us believe. There are always other variables involved.
CT
That is precisely my point.