Will The Kalenjiin Militia Morph into something else?
Here is a short (30 minute) documentary about the genesis and growth of the violence. It is somewhat outdated because it was made before this “peace” deal was signed, but the stories from the people caught up in it are still interesting (especially the claim by a Kikuyu woman in the rift valley who says the Kalenjin militia’s were in one large house, where they were fed and told to go out and kill Kikuyu’s; She also says they operated in two shifts: one group would go out and “work” and the second group would return to the house, refuel (read: eat) and then go back again on their killing spree. It’s very chilling (link to video here: Kenya’s Rift).
What happens when you arm and train young jobless men to fight? They will continue to fight even after any peace deal is signed because they have nothing else to do. These Kalenjin militia’s who were trained to kill Kikuyu’s are now going to turn into a criminal gang like the Mungiki. They have no jobs and they have to eat. The idea that the violence can just be turned off like a light switch is quite naive, I believe.
Is this not what happened to the Afghan Arabs who fought the Russians in Afghanistan? They went to Afghanistan when they were 18 and 19 years old, they fought for years and when the war ended they had nothing to do, but they were well trained and well armed. And where did they end up? in Bosnia, in Chechnya, in Sudan, etc, etc. They morphed into something far more dangerous. I’m not saying these Kalenjins will morph into Jihadists, but after killing Kikuyu’s and burning down their houses. ..what do they have to show for it? Nothing. They are still jobless and they are still penniless and Raila is not going to give them that land. Raila got his “big” job and he’ll get the “big” car and the mansion on the hill, but these young men will get nothing.
So, the question is, at what point will these Kalenjin “warriors” realize that all that bloodletting was for naught. You’d think they would have realized it by now. Afterall, they killed Kikuyu’s in 1992 and got nothing; tried it again in 1997 and got nothing. Do these people not think? and I’m asking this question in all seriousness because I think they are EXPECTING Raila to GIVE them land this time and it aint’ gonna happen.
KE: I think they’ll get something. The US $2 billion should have within it, something to satisfy victims of systemic historic inequitable resource allocation. And also to resettle the victims of the forementioned.
Yes, they will morph into something else. And then we’ll see the real killing fields. We are all present at the laying of this egg, so what are we (as Kenyans) going to do?
KE,
These Kales are animals and as such, animals don’t think, they don’t have the capability to do that. They just follow orders.
Once all the kyuks are chased out of town, it might to a scene like kisumu, where once all the kyuks were out, those jango goons now turned on the jango middle class, or anyone perceived to be doing better than them.
On a different note; I just read that they finally captured the suspects involved in the killing of Were and they’ll be remanded.
http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/Local/MP’s-murder-suspects-arraigned-in-court.html
The frustrating thing about this is that we all know these criminals were hired guns, after all, the prosecution hasn’t yet given a motive for their killing.
What frustrates is that they’re not saying who paid them to do it..and why won’t they ? can someone tell me ?
I mean, if these guys know that they are going to spend some time in prison, what is so hard in giving up the name of the people, person who paid you to do it ?
KE, I think you should first tell us what Mungiki will become. You must realize that all other tribal militias were formed in response to the threats of Mungiki. Rather than worry yourself about what could happen, I ask you to first denounce Mungiki.
You must also understand that violence breeds violence. We all know that it is Mungiki that has perfected the art of skinning the heads of Kenyans. People will always defend themselves by forming counter militia. There’s no monopoly on death. When Kikuyus support and cheer Mungiki, they must be prepared to face the wrath of other militias. The truth is that non-GEMA communities have been living in fear of Mungiki for long enough. DENOUNCE MUNGIKI !!!
Before you attack Ruto, tell us what you think of Uhuru Kenyatta (Mungiki sponsor). What are you views on the public fundraising meetings where Kikuyu businessmen and politicians raised money for MUNGIKI?? Why didn’t you report that here?
You are simply an insolent tribalist and you have been exposed.
i HOPE YOUR HATE FOR OTHER TRIBES DOES NOT GIVE YOU A HEART ATTACK SOON!!POLE SANA- ALL THE PITY GOES TO YOUR POUR SOUL WHICH IS FULL OF CORRUPTION- HATE !!
KE,
That video is offline, the owner might have removed it.
Now that the peace deal has been signed we will get on with our lives, to think that the militia was made up of jobless youth you are very wrong KE. We don’t need to be recruited like Mingiki ,,,,
Vitalis:
I did raise the issue of Mungiki in the piece above and called them a criminal gang. That’s certainly not an endorsement of the group. And actually I would say that the bulk of the victims of Mungiki were in fact Kikuyu’s and in fact, it is Michuki, who used brutal tactics to bring them down after they started beheading people. This idea that many Kikuyu’s supported Mungiki is simply not true.
However, let’s move on to the question of where Mungiki originated from. They were young, jobless men who were recruited from Nairobi’s slums (just as the young, jobless Kalenjin men were recruited from the rift valleys rural poor).
At some point during Mungiki’s history, Kikuyu politicians perhaps used them to intimidate their political opponents particularly in the 2002 elections, but what happened after that? in 2007, a good 5 years later, Mungiki morphed into this well organized criminal gang that went around terrorizing people and beheading them.
The same dynamics appear to be at play in the rift valley. Kalenjin politicians paid these jobless men to kill innocent Kikuyu’s. However, after these politicians get what they want, these young men are still going to be left jobless and poor and like mungiki, I suspect they too will morph into something more dangerous. Why? because the fundamental dynamics on the ground are not going to change for them within the next 5 years. They will still be landless (as they were in 92 and 97) and they will still be jobless. And when the Kikuyu’s start moving back, what are they going to do, especially after they realize that Raila is not going to give them the land?
And I actually think that these kalenjin militia’s maybe more dangerous because unlike mungiki, they believe that the land will miraculously revert back to them. Mungiki was more like the mafia – they just wanted immediate cash payout which they extracted through extortion.
KE
Am curious!!! Why did the kalenjin warriors NOT morph into something 92,97, etc.(they got nothing you said)…Mungiki you admited morphed!!
This shows that these people do not follow your rules of logic…meaning anly one thing your premises (foundation and dynamics of Kalenjin warriors ) must be wrong…and rightly you said they are much more DANGEROUS than we think
thanks
@ke
wise up dude, unlike mungiki, all kale men are trained to be disciplined warriors, myself included, all of them will go back to their regular jobs like nothing happened. That is probably why kales have no trouble enlisting to foreign military forces when they emigrate from kenya. what is it with ua obsession with kales anyways., kenyan’s have moved on, what is left is formation of reconciliation commission and land reform. Hiyo tu…..
#ProudKaleo
KE and many others are obssessed about Kales because Kales by the ferocity and speed of their offensive did attract International attention and hence the forced power deal. We want to know why!! You have admited you are trained~ when,where how and by whom…anwer all these please..
We also noted Kales were not looting but mainly burning and killing. what do you get? What next for you after Raila gets his job?
Thanks
Well, well, well… i am very shocked to see people supporting a killer… to those who think its will just be atruth and reconciliation without justice…let them know justice will soon catch up with them… God say..I never change.. and if that is so…. them His word will never pass away..which say…
“And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man” (Genesis 9:5, 6, NIV).
The blood of the innocent is crying from the ground…this are children snatched from thier mothers back and slashed to death.
I think everyone is missing the point here. The Kales are not fighting just for the sake of fighting. They want their land back! Especially since they see they’re the one tribe in Kenya who woulnd up with majority of the Kikuyus on THEIR land. That being said, I do not support the violence but we have to start looking for solutions.
My solution is this: Since the Kenyattas own land the size of Nyanza AS WE SPEAK, they should be able to resettle THEIR people on this land. If they begin doing so and find the land is not enough, then the rest of Kenya can begin looking for other solutions and places to take the remaining people. But you cannot STEAL land and expect the owners to be your friends while they sink deeper into poverty…
MY two cents!
Mzeiya, do you realize that your kind of careless ethnic labelling that has perpetuated tribal hatred.I don’t disagree with your point, but when you say “These Kales are animals and as such, animals dont think” or “jaluo goons’ you lose the whole point!
we need a different Kenya,especially as we Kyuks have often been victimized due to a blanket accusation of subversin and arrogance towards other tribes,yet on the ground we’ve lived together as Kenyans for ages.
That kind of labelling has no place in the new kenya bro!
Some of you guys leave in perpetual denial. U proclaim your impertiality and tribelessness yet U all know and are so quick to identify with your tribes. The fact remains the black man is doomed. Be it in US of A (dont mention Obama- he is not African or black for that matter) or Sub sahara Africa. Just take a look at South Africa which used to be jewel in terms of govt running today its on overdrive going down the drain as “blacks get empowered” During Apertheid their soccer team-Bafana Bafana used to be a force to reckon but once they got blacks running the show we all know what has become of it. Today the country that used to export electricity it has embarked on power rationing. And the sad part is getting killed in S.A its just like that—- ask Lucky dube. Tribalism is starting to rear it ugly head and believe me or not it will explode big tyme such that your Kikuyu killing imberciles in Kenya will look like child play, they have guns you black apes have Machetes and arrows. You Kenyans can never be equal. Community socialisation is not something you wake up and get rid of by burning a structure. Here we have some Kenyans eking a living and even if am not so schooled about your stupid tribes There are those who come here and live like there is no tommorrow and there are those who are street smart in that they always look for ways to make that extra Kronner and am made to understand they come from the so called Presidents tribe. I read a book written by Morton abt a former president Moei and in it I was able to see how structured along ethinic lines the Kenyan community is, which by the way is no different from anyother African society. Just the other day in Tanzanie which is in East Africa we had guys freeing violence there and Camping in neighbouring country Mombasa, Cameroon is the same so is Chad so is Haiti. The black man is cursed Dr Watson was right their DNA is defective.
So guys go on kill each other we will come and re-colonised and enlighten you but we must do a research on how to improve your DNA.
White’s world: you’re hilarious
You can’t blame socialization and then blame DNA. And I love how you ignore that ethnic tensions exist between “white” people, though they’re compounded by religious affinities. Former Yugoslavia mean anything to you? And Russia? Or are you only looking at Scandinavia, where you have “so much love” among neighboring countries? Maybe the bottleneck in DNA that made many of you blonde and blue-eyed and susceptible to certain heart diseases also selected against aggression? I think not.
Now, scoot along. Let the couple (Kenya) fight in its house in peace.
proudkaleo:
Wouldn’t you say the reason they did not morph into something else is because Moi was in power then and he was helping them!
##White World
You are a liar.. You try to blog as a white man ~~~You English betrayed you
—Just the other day in Tanzanie which is in East Africa we had guys freeing violence there and Camping in neighbouring country Mombasa—and many others…
It contains Bantu grammar
Be youself
Thanks
PS: if you can not get why am saying he is not white see the distance on keyboard betwen L and R (no cahnce of a mistake in all western QWERTY keyboards)
State ’sanctioned’ Kenyan clashes
By Karen Allen
BBC News, Nairobi
Some 1,500 people died in unrest after disputed poll results
The BBC has learnt of allegations of state-sanctioned violence in Kenya during the recent post-poll crisis.
Sources allege that meetings were hosted at the official residence of the president between the banned Mungiki militia and senior government figures.
The aim was to hire them as a defence force in the Rift Valley to protect the president’s Kikuyu community.
The government has declined to respond to the allegations which are likely to be investigated by a new commission.
We were ordered not to stop the vehicles to allow them to go
Rift Valley policeman
The allegations come as parliament is due to open on Thursday preparing the way for a new coalition government.
Although parliament’s focus will be on healing ethnic divisions and creating a coalition government – allegations of state involvement with a banned Kikuyu militia, known as Mungiki, will not go ignored.
Not least because of growing suspicion that some of the violence that led to 1,500 people being killed and hundreds of thousands displaced was orchestrated by both sides of the political divide.
Gangs with machetes
The BBC source, who is a member of the Kikuyu tribe and who is now in hiding after receiving death threats, alleged: “Three members of the gang met at State House… and after the elections and the violence the militias were called again and they were given a duty to defend the Kikuyu in Rift Valley and we know they were there in numbers.”
Non-Kikuyu homes in Naivasha were ransacked and set alight
On the weekend of 25 January, the Rift Valley towns of Nakuru and then Naivasha were the focus of the some of the worst post-election violence.
Eyewitnesses spoke of non-Kikuyu homes being marked, then gangs with machetes – who they claim were Mungiki – attacked people who were from other ethnic groups.
Sources inside the Mungiki have told the BBC that it was a renegade branch of the outfit that was responsible for violence, not them.
A policeman who was on duty at the time, who has spoken to the BBC on condition of anonymity, has also pointed to clear signs of state complicity.
He alleges that in the hours before the violence in Nakuru, police officers had orders not to stop a convoy of minibus taxis, called “matatus”, packed with men when they arrived at police checkpoints.
“When we were there… I saw about 12 of them [matatus] packed with men,” he said.
“There were no females… I could see they were armed.
“We were ordered not to stop the vehicles to allow them to go.”
The current and previous minister for internal security have both been invited to respond to the allegations. So far they have declined to do so.
The allegations come at a time of growing concern that there was pre-planned violence on both sides of the political fence, in the aftermath of Kenya’s disputed election result.
The international crisis group has already raised such concerns and Human Rights Watch is expected to publish its report making similar claims shortly.
There are plans to establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in the coming weeks to examine claims of election violence.
The allegations are likely to be among the themes investigated by a commission created to address the issue of post-election skirmishes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7279149.stm
white’s world;
didn’t the south-african football team get the name ‘Bafana-Bafana’ AFTER the fall of aparthied? if you cant get the small things right, the larger ones are probably way off the mark.
KE;
quite right about the mungiki, who are an essentially urban gang that extracts rents from citizens. the guys who killed for land they’ll never get are the one’s who need sorting out, by the good way or by the less than good way.
Fear not our fellow PNU supporters, we ar hard at work protecting our kind:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor.....279149.stm
@akenyan: thank you for pointing out, once again, that the bbc and the british government are on the side of the odious demonic machinations and out to get their hands back on the sovereign republic of kenya. If some people are as ‘warrior-some’ and as trained as they claim, then they will know that people surprised with a rungu knock from the back will quickly strike back.
No point pouting, crying foul, and making up evidence just because your marshall plan of genocide was defeated by a rag-tag bunch of untrained militias.
Anyway, I thought we had moved on. As proudkaleo said, what is left is formation of reconciliation commission and land reform. Hiyo tu…
wow. so many posts to reply too..PROUD KALEO …i see u too, Lakini I’m just itching to set this jungu White’s world straight:
WHITE’S WORLD:
i PRESUME You’re in sweden or some scandanavian country ?
anyway, starting with Obama, yes he is black and has African heritage of which he is proud of. Let me explain how things work in the US. If one of your parent’s is white and the other black, no matter how light skinned you look, you are defined as black. If both your parent’s are white, then you are white. For Obama, his mum was white and his dad was black (Kenyan), so despite his skin color he is automatically black. In kenya if your parent’s are black and white you are described automatically as a point five/biracial. In the U.S. you are black, it may not be so in sweden but the U.S. operates differntly.
You point out that SA used to be the “jewel” in govt running ? where did you get that poposterous idea from? What “jewel” exists when only a minority of a country’s citizens are treated as full humans while the majority are treated as inhuman.
what “jewel” exists when the state bans freedom of expression and protests from it’s disenfranchized majority ?
what “jewel” exists when prejudice and racism is the modus operandi in employemnt, allocation of housing, state resources, restaurants, etc.
SA govt may have looked as if they were running like a “jewel” only because they suppressed the black masses and were living on borrowed time. They failed to include the black majority in their planning as they figured their policy of apartheid would last forever.-and it didn’t, and I’m sure there’s quite a number of whites/boers who wish nostalgically for the “goodol days” when “blacks knew their place” and whites ruled with impunity.
The fact of the matter is that you cannot rule a country as if one race/tribe owns the country and expect everything to be perfect.What south africa is expereincing now are the birth pangs of a growing country, just the way kenya is experiencing problems. It’s like when a child gets to adolescent and becomes rebelliuos, it’s just the process of growing up.
everycountry had it, as someone mentioned above, yugoslavia was worse. In America, the south is always viewed differntly by the northern americans. they are viewd as somewhat backward and homely, as oposed to the urbane sophistictaed northereners. At one time, the south wanted to secceede and that wa sthe outbreak of the american civil war where many people died. So ,even you white people are not beyond or above civil strife, it’s only that most of the white countries have been in existence for many hundred years, while in africa, like kenya, kenya just came into place in 1890 when the british decided to put boundaries and call it kenya.
You choose to forget how your forefathers were uncivilized “warriors” calling themselves vikings who’s only skill was fishing. You need to know your history before you open your foul mouth and pass jusdgement on others.
In kenya we have problems, and guess what, we’re a young country compared to the “model” countries. we’re a young country trying to catch up economically , socially and politically to the “model” countries where all their citizens have basic rights, free education thru high school and good healthcare. we’re like a young child wanting to catch up to his adult peers, and guess what, for a young country as we are, we’re not doing too badly.
We do have seriuos issues as every family does and we are dealing with them. So you need to get off your pale white ass two horse and come down to earth before you- start criticizing us. BY the year 2050, India’s economy will have supassed your country’s so you don’t have that much longer to be high up there in your imaginary sky.
And you say you’re not schooled about our “stupid” tribes..may you’re too STUPID to understand. I really think you are. You claim people in Tanzania were fleeing violence and camped in the neighboring country MOMBASA.? Mombasa is not a country-it’s a city. It’s like me saying Malmo is a country- see how ignorant I’d look?
Dr Watson’s DNA work on black man is no basis for you whities to feel appeased.I look at THE level of corruption in the US and I’m amazed at how “official” it is.
If it were an african country, you’d call it corruption, but in the west you call it Lobbying…total B.S.
PROUD KALEO:
Ati you are one of those “warriors” in waiting. So are they going to draft you or call you duty ? and if they did, would you abandon your life in the West to go kill kikuyu women and children in the name of “warriors on duty “
ANNE MARIE:
Kale’s want “their land” back ?
I know there’s an argument of sijui it’s their “ancestral” land ? WTF???
If you look at kenya’s history, you’ll learn that Kalenjin’s drove off the MAAsai from that land in the first place.why do you think some Kale related names are from maasai like Eldoret, Sabot, etc ?
If it’s about ancetral land, then no one in kenya should claim right to ancetral land in kenya. Kales ancetral land is in sudan, southern sudan maybe, kyuks, bantu’s etc is somewhere in the congo or west of NAija….
These kales attacked people and evicted them from their houses. My question is, why the hell did they ignore attacking kenyuatta’s big tracts of land or the delamere’s and they targeted people who live on 1 acre, half an acre, 2 acres for eviction, yet most of these people had title deeds of their property’s obtained when the same kaleo’s sold that land to them ?
This argument of ancetsral land is stale….no one has ancestral land in kenya, we allc ame from other parts of africa and the kales evicted the maasai from most of the rift valley.
CEDRIC KIMANI:
These people burn women and children in a church….they are following orders to this
any human with a consciuos would think before torching people in a church. as such, if you are capable of doing this without thinking, what seprates you froma n animal that does not think but just follows orders or acts on instincts.?
@MZEIYA
You’r on Fireeee!!!!!!!. Let it out.
Let the truth be told, Amen……My brother if you need help, Holla
Justice is coming…No Reconciliation without JUSTICE. Hellaluyah….Amen
@MZEIYA-
Please join the the so called Truth and Reconciliation committee. They need you there.Tell them brother……..they need your dose. Keep up your good work….i say Amen too.
@MZEIYA
To add to your point on WHITE’S WORLD….Not Just half, even a quarter black is considered black in the US. In the old days….they said an eighth of N***** blood is a N*****. Dig it?
@mzeiya
i have never implied that the IDPS should not get justice. what kenyans need is a truth and reconciliation committee to chart a way forward.
@mzeiya
u have to understand that majority of kale’s are traditionally a pastoral community, so by nature they had to have security, u cant ignore the fact that cattle rustling still happens in kenya and so the need for warrior training for all kale males during initiation. i personally graduated decades ago but instead joined the marine corp where i have been able to improve ma skills and have used them efficiently all over the world.. as for land ownership , per the constitution kenyans can own land anywhere, but u can’t ignore the fact that there are thousands of landless kenyans in RV and coast province and yet the kenyatta’s, kibaki’s and moi’s, white farmers and criticos own over 500,000 acres of land…all kales want is major land reform as part of the peace deal…. this will give the kyuk peasant farmers everlasting peace…
@proudkaleo
And who told you central province doesn’t have its share of squatters and the landless ?
As I said earlier Mungikii is hear to stay….. Anyway as of yesterday, the new gova was put on notice, thousands of our boys marched in broad day light and put forward their demands, now lets see how your newly appointed headboy-prefect will deal with it. He cannot rule, but surpervise and coordinate; yes he can!!!
They also left tonnes of leaflets all over the streets, we are not hidding anymore. No Maina, No peace was their chant thru’ the major city streets accross Sheria house to central police…..also remember I told you that we now have an external enemy? Let the Kaleo “warriors or Taliban attempt that kind of move in the city and GSU will just come in to sweep the remains.
On retribution that will need to be addressed by the kaleos themselves, I don’t know what you can do to stop it, even as a US marine you are facing a very sharp and angry sword, who are you to think otherwise if after the 2007 mungikii-gova confrontation; we are still setting the agenda on the gova, but I guese since you have been warrior training you are also itching for a good fight.
We also understand there is about 150,000 guns in the north rift area not just bow and arrows. what do you think we are carrying, farm tools and kitchen utensils???
Be very afraid my friends…….you awoke Kikuyu Nationalism, which was dormant for decades trying to share KENYA with the rest of you. But you got too greedy.
BTW, Communal punishment has commenced in the cover of cabing cattle rustling and the sabot menace in the north rift.
Where is the “Big Bad Kaleo Army”?
@MZEIYA
Looking at the entries from yesterday, it seem’s you said all that the rest of us could have said in a whole day. Not even a worthy comeback from the otherside. You hit it on the head
Congratulations….and Amen
#EagleEYe
When i go through proudKaleo blogs they do not have a standing army like Mungiki..He was implying all Kales are the army…..It must be true since i have never come across a Kale oathing scene….IN THE past people like you would argue Moi is funding…Biwott is funding ….but since they are in PNU and they had their properties torched by Kalenjins then they could have reported the Kalenjin Worrior Generals (Not the old Kibor who was an enemy of MOI ) to the goverment. RUTO was not funding definately in 92 or 97….which means The Kalenjin Warriors thing is greater than Ruto…It also means they do not get PAID…which makes em dangerous…
KE and ANNE –MARIE gave me a hint…(LAND). So these people have a cause….Which makes them very dangerous…They want us out of their LAND
When Kenya came together (63) ‘our land thing need to have disapeared’. Years of capitalism have not drilled anything..
My suggestion is we need a very fast growing Economy (over 20% ) and spread it benefits to all so that ownership is widespread….When people own…they do not destroy…Those who destroy have little to loose
thanks
@mzeiya
like lord said above we need a fast growing economy so that the unemployed youth will not be misused by our leaders. i personally have no idea why mungiki was formed or what their agenda is. looks like ua fellow kyuk leaders have renegaded on a few MOU’S and mungiki seem really mad..
Guys….Mass action coming your way….Remember yesterday’s demo by Mungikii; The Prelude…Can you see a pattern.
Do you recall the last time there was mass action in Nakuru??
Quoted from the standard newspaper: 06/02/2008, Incase you missed it.
A group of internally displaced people (IDPs) has given the Government a 14-day ultimatum to resettle them or face “MASS ACTION”. They complained that the Government had ignored their plight and only tackled the issue of legal reforms. They asked President Kibaki and the Prime Minister-Designate, Mr Raila Odinga, to visit IDP camps. “The leaders should jointly visit the IDPs to affirm that as leaders they support our constitutional right to own property anywhere in the country,” said Mr Jesse Mwaniki, their spokesman
Uasin Gishu here we come!!!
@KE… You are about to be vindicated.
For the rest of you, I say run baby…run
@proudkaleo
You don’t get a fast growing economy while some are busy working and other’s destroying and killing. Those two don’t mix
Now, we need those pastrolist to move out of Uasin Gishu, We are about to build it even better in exchange for your Peace and Tranquility. Go say, you first heard it here…..Just like the Maasai made way, so shall it be done.
I know you must have heard it elsewhere that we shall never leave RV; Our blood is in the soil. Now you are about to witness it, in your lifetime.
@EagleEye
you seem to be sending mixed messages here bro. is mungiki going to destroy kales and take over eldy and RV????
@proudkaleo
Re-read the entry and ask yourself who has been destroying and killing in Uasin Gishu/Eldoret/RV? Then things will be clearer for you.
I know its painfull to be the one being judged, but guy; you brought this onto yourselves, you should have first thought it through. For how long will you carry this burden. Kiuks are not your cousins like the pokots, soi, marakwets or the saboats…atii they will forget & forgive…No
And since you are calling me bro” let me ask and sincerly; How do you see our future together or your’s as a kaleo?
For you personally the truth and reconciliation process you have been asking for can start here, now and today. If you do I will tell one little truth about myself.
proudkaleo:
This is the basic problem: Odinga’s campaign platform was one that emphasized the redistribution of wealth. Take from the rich (read: Kikuyu land owners in the rv and redistribute it to the landless kalenjins).
And the Kalenjins bought this argument (sadly). However, the truth is, redistribution has never worked anywhere in the world. If the kalenjins want to become rich they are going to have to create new forms of wealth for themselves. Kibaki is not going to give you land and guess what? neither is Raila Odinga. He talks a good game, but he is all domo, domo, domo. He is currently enjoying his new mercedes benz and in 2012, he will be back with the same false promises.
You need to start providing more honest answers here about why the kalenjins are holding on to this pipe dream that the land will be given to them. If moi didn’t give you land, no one will.
@lord: Well said… “When people own…they do not destroy…Those who destroy have little to loose”…
If we, the “informed” can just stop bickering for a moment we’ll see that the problem isn’t over yet… and that a handshake between the two political powers wont make this go away… The problem is bigger than kibaki. raila. ruto. kikuyu. kalenjin. luo. etc. To put it simply…70% of kenya’s population is between the age of 15-30 years. Even with free (primary) education, there are very few jobs to go around, meaning, there are alot of hungry, angry and discontent young people out there who have “nothing to lose”… These young people make-up up the 60% of Kenyans who live below the poverty line. Most of them live in slums, poor and marginalized areas in kenya. This is where the violence was most intense (mathare, kibera, kondele, kisumu ndogo – in Naivasha and Nakuru, Kakamega, etc).
We cannot continue to have some of these useless discussions about which tribe is mightier than others while we have bigger problem at hand: Disempowered youth, many of them victims of a society that doesnt care about the plight of the poor. Mungiki, Taliban, Baghdad, and other militias are a creation of poverty, unemployment and social exclusion. They earn their income through extortions (in the slums where they reside) – and thuggery… They have nothing to lose. TThe loss of your property, relative, parents, business, land, etc. only means one thing to them: WELCOME TO THE CLUB! This is how we feel 24/7/365!!
Karl Marx said it best: “A house may be large or small; as long as the neighboring houses are likewise small, it satisfies all social requirement for a residence. But let there arise next to the little house a palace, and the little house shrinks to a hut. The little house now makes it clear that its inmate has no social position at all to maintain, or but a very insignificant one; and however high it may shoot up in the course of civilization, if the neighboring palace rises in equal of even in greater measure, the occupant of the relatively little house will always find himself more uncomfortable, more dissatisfied, more cramped within his four walls.”
#Eagle Eye ,Mzeiya,KE
I notice you are of the same solution to the Kenyan problem!!! Thats more and more chaos..(thats my perception..might be wrong)..A race like the cold war ..remember Soviet Union & US
From my observation The Kalenjin and the Kikuyu are the strongest communities in Kenya …Kikuyus are Enterprenual and thrifty. They have deep financial displine. Kalenjins havent really found what they want to do…but they are almost faultless healthwise (almost all are fit naturally) . They are stoic and genteel….(proudkale will like this). But they have a weakness for a drink….Mzee MOI wanted to merge this two communities (2002) but Raila was smarter by cheating Kibaki to split… Had Moi (Uhuru) won Kenyans would have had centuries of Kalenjin~Kikuyu Hegemony…thats a topic on its own.
So Kalenjins are ideal for Jobs like the Military,Police….DC…PCs. (They can be brutaly honest). But they belive in nature and hardly like to incubate..(am not saying they are fools..have met frightenlingy bright(maths) Kales.)..Kyuks can do well in incubation (financial)
Am not saying here other comunities cannot do well but this two seem to have some aptitude in areas described
MY conclusion is this…LET THE KYUKS WITH A MISSIONARY ZEAL create bussineses….we quaddouble our economy~ the Kales on the hand can be Judges…Generals…Athletes…Luos can be artisans and Doctors and Human rights police..the others can fit in where they like and this country will be an African super power in under 20 yrs.
If we follow chaos’ then mark my words ‘the country will split and be brought back only under strict Majimbo rules). Kyuks will be the worst loosers..(because they have something already)
Thanks
ps:I belong to the others ethnicaly
@ke
kales care less about redistribution of resources, RV-province is the only province in kenya that can be self reliant. if u have lived with kale’s, u should know that we do not like free stuff, dont be fooled by moi’s cronies who raped kenya dry for 25 years, why the fuck do u think kales got rid of moi, his son’s and cronies in the last elections. moi fucked kales up in the 80’s and 90’s more than kenyatta did in 15 years… most kales were happy with kibaki’s efforts to revive some industries, his biggest mistake was evicting kales in mau forrest and firing too many kales from the civil service. where did hon kimunya get the guts to call title deeds “a piece of paper”…i guess its ok to call kyuk peasant farmers title deeds “eviction notice papers”… u guys sometimes drive me nuts, especially mzeiya….thai…
well. the only truth is that kales dont like mixing with other kenyans.They live un solitary only in Riftvalley and they dont like socilising with other kenyans.Where in Nairobi can you find the kale community en mass?none? in Nairobi you find Luo’s,Kiuks,luhyas, kisiis and kambas settling as large communities in Nairobi.Its to a great suprise that the Kale being one of Kenya’s largest community is only found in Riftvalley.
Its a high time our dear brothers and sisters of the Kale community started mixing and living amongst other kenyan communities.After all we are kenyans.For we love them, yet they hate us with a passion.
God Bless Kenya.
akenyan:
How can we not use ethnic arguments when the politicians are defining their economic platforms in ethnic ways? Raila Odinga’s entire campaign was based on this falsehood that the masses were poor because Kikuyu’s had stolen from them. This was his rallying cry and it’s what lead to the outbreak of violence against the Kikuyu.
Proudkaleo:
Why are you surprised that Kibaki fired many kalenjins from the civil service? many kenyans believed that a lot of those kalenjins were simply incompetent and the evidence for that was in the run down state of the country. Why do kalenjiins keep ignoring this issue of competence? It’s too bad that Moi’s rule has left the kalenjin with this tag of incompetence. Whereas Kibaki’s rule will leave Kikuyu’s with the tag of total arrogance. These tags don’t go away easily.
on the mau forest:
Where those kaleo’s squatters? and did the government own that land? if they were squatters with no legal title to the land, then the government did have a right to kick them off. I know a high court order was issued against Kimunya and he ignored it, which he shouldn’t have, but who did the land go to? Kikuyu’s?
Wow again, bery interesting posts up here…hata sijui nianze wapi..
LORD:
I have read your analysis and boy, I find it very interesting. Won’t that argument rub some the wrong way ? I feel in kenya due to all this ethnic strife we witnessed, we’ll start becoming more sensitive to people’s ethnicities and we might witness a birth of P.C. in Kenya, i.e. political correctness in speech. Looking at your argument’s on the strengths and weaknesses of the major communities in kenya, some may get offended. e.g. what if Proud kaleo feels “disrespetced” by saying that kales are not good in business but make good cops, D.C.’s , P.C.’s etc….
And by the way Lord, i don’t know where you got the impression that I was “of the same solution to the kenyan problem”
Please be more specific in what you mean. Kenya has many problems, which one in particular are you talking about ?
PROUD KALEO:
I drive you nuts ??….lol….
I figured as much about the kaleo warrior thing. i.e. that kale boys on circumcission undergo tarining to defend their communities. However, I think this defence is geared toward protecting the community from rival cattle raiders, by the way most of whom are fellow kaleos…am I right ?
I feel that these “militarized” youth are also susceptible for political use by crooked politicians for their own agendas…i .e RUTO.
proud kaleo, I agree with you that Kibaki purged alot of kaleos from the gava during his tenure. Do you know why ? Coz they were not performing? they were crippling the economy. at that time, even now, a large part of kenya’s economy lies in state hands thru parastatals. tHE RUNNING DOWN OF THESE parastatals obviuosly had an effect on the economy as they would have to reach out to the treasury to get funding for their operations.But now we see that, these huge parastatals are giving the treasury (gava) dividend checks.
Offcourse during MOI Time there was a whole bunch of incompetent CEO’s of gava companies, even kyuks like Sam Gichuru of KPLC(This guy milked this company so much)
but the bulk of these incopmetents were kaleos;
Look at ODM Cahirman Henry Kosgey. he was in charge of KNAC-Kenya national assurance company and he brought it down to it’s knees. I’ve always wondered what level of greed and incompetence you need to have to bring down a company that has a MONOPOLY on getting government insurance contracts.
Isiaiah Kiplagat : This guy was in charge of the world famous safari rally when it’s prestige and ranking crumbled down drastically. I read that they are considering cancelling the event all together. does anyone remember how safari rally was one of those kenyan proudful sports where everyone was excited about it, then gradually, this popularity waned as sponsorrs pulled out. all this was under the tenure of isaiah kiplagat.
Samuel Chepkonga :
This dude was in charge of the CCK from the get go. he was a young guy but useless all together. He gave safaricom and kencell a monopoly and ability to rip kenyans off thru premuim priced phone service, while at the same time his breathren in Telkom Kenya stalled the sale of this company ina privatisation deal. Could it be coz kina Gideon Moi and Biwott had shares in safaricom thru Mobitelea, and Moi had shares in kencell thru the sameer group ?
Eric Kotut:
This guy was the head of central bank when kenya expereienced it’s worst inflation ever when the gava decided to print money in excess and double the money supply. I found out this guy’s educational credentials were quite modest at the time. He’s one of the biggest rose exporters to date but he has one of the biggest cases pending in the judicial system over graft.
Hosea Kiplagat:
He was the chairman of Co-Op Bank for a very long time. No scandal to report about. the only thing is that after NARC came to power, the same bank he’d chaired was on his ass kicking him out of his house for non-payment of rent. I was surprised that a guy of that stature was still renting a house..I mean if you can’t buy /secure a mortgage as a bnak chairman, then what the hell level of competent brain do you have ?
I could go on & on but that will take up too much bandwidth-for real.
However, there are some very competent kales and as such kibaki has retained these guys/gals. one of them is Esther Koimett at the treasury and julius kipng’etich- u just have to love this guy’s brilliance. He’s in charge of KWS and has revolutionized that company to the extent they made kshs2 bILLION LAST YEAR Profit.
When Kibaki came into power, some of the kyuks he put into very big posts were not competent either, or were not up to par.
Chris Murangaru:
This guy is a thug like Ruto. power hungry , evil corrupt guy. These were the people who “in charge” of the government when kibaki was convalescing and could not perform his duties properly. I believe these were the guys that rubbed people the wrong way at first and when kibaki came into full recovery and resumed work, he found shit had hit teh roof. anyway, murangaru got his; fired from the cabinet, lost his MP Seat-good riddance.
David Mwiraria:
This guys was a career beuraucrat, could not think outside the box, tahnk God he’s out never to come back.
A KENYAN:
U need to realize that the growth of kenya’s economy could not touch everyone in 5 years, that’s unrealistic. It has to take 10-15 years.
Mzeiya: Economic growth doesnt always translate into development (for all), but that is not the issue here. My concern is with the ever increasing population of youth – a marginalized group that only seems to become relevant during election campaigns when politicians use them to fight their opponents… I doubt that anyone with a stable job, family and home would leave the comfort of their home to go out to the streets to engage in battles with the police or other gangs over political beefs (case in point: kenya’s middle class)… But there is a big section of the Kenyan youth population that would jump on the opportunity. Why? They are poor, idle, jobless, disoriented and have nothing to lose. They are tired of the rat race that their lives have become and will buy into any political, social or religious ideologies that promise a better life (e.g. Mungiki’s desire for return to Mumbi days, kalenjin “warriors” claim to their ancestral land, sabaot land defense force, etc)… If we had policies that genuinely address the problems facing this population (of easily inciteable youth), then political violence would be a thing of the past.
A KENYAN:
The large number of idle youth is a real concern, I agree, and the government should recognize this.
The only question we should ask ourselves is why did the kales behave the way they did after the elections?
The fact that some leaders were involved in corrupt practices does not mean that the whole kale community is guilty.One of the first mistake of the Govt was to sideline the kale community.
By addressing these issues, then we will come up with a lasting solution.
At the same time, by telling the kiuks to move out of Riftvalley is like telling indians to go back to India or the African Americans’ to go back to Africa.
Kenya should be a free society where all live together in peace and harmony regardless of tribe.
The government never sidelined any community to be frank. It sacked incompetent staff from government jobs abnd put them on performance based comtracts which has paid dividends. If it failed the we have a reason to complain. If it has worked then congrats to kibaki. If raila has another workable solution that can do better so be it. We want progress and growth, not tribaluisation of positions. After all, even the guy raila or kibaki will appoint is a kenyan. It could be a kiuk a kall or a luo. And allthese are kenyans. Kalles are not more kenyans than the others.
@mzeiya
i had no problem with incompetent and corrupt kales being fired, what am trying to say is kibaki went to far, he targeted kale land owners, businesses, educated civil servants, fired or transfered military personel, closed down eldoret airport(which was being used by kyuk businessmen by the way), stopped recruiting police, ap, gsu, army in RV-province, targeted only kale’s for corruption cases, evicted kale tribes who had lived in some forests for over 100 years++++. with kibaki rigging himself in, kales expected him to come and finally finish them for good, it was a matter of life and death for them, they did not care if kibaki controlled all the guns in kenya, they were willing to die and still have their pride intact……and guess what??? the violence worked…
what i love and hate about all this kenyan violence is; all other kenyan tribes now think that violence is the only way u can bring change… i can almost guarantee u that mungiki is going to target some leaders soon central province…
@proudkalleo
Whatsup with Luo Nyanza turning their back on you kales? You want to tell us that you guys will be left out “again” these time by ODM, I hear they even declared that RV does not deserve any ministerial positions leave alone the Deputy primier. Wow
Now the motorcade is on the road, security beefed up to protect Raila from you guys and next I hear is the swearing in of the real ODM chief. Kweli violence does not pay. Now I hear also no other tribe wants to be associated with kalenjin’s Kabisa…Luhya’s are also itching too give it to you; if you insist on Musalia not getting the DPM position and Raila is not even trying to visit RV.
I think you are very much behind news…..Ruto is feelin’ low call him and ask him to start another eviction. Mambo badoooo!!!!!
In the first place, you guys should have listened to Mzee Moi.
proudkaleo:
You said something very interesting: The the violence worked. And you know what? I was thinking the same exact thing after Kibaki signed this deal!!! It’s obvious that Ruto and Raila and all those Kalenjins believe that Kibaki and the Kikuyu’s cowered and were unable to fight back.
This is why this deal is so suspect to me because I know that the Kikuyu’s who are advising Kibaki are telling him the exact same thing (that he capitulated and was intimidated by a bunch of 19 year olds fighting with bows and arrows). And call me crazy, but kibaki is up to something (how can he allow himself to be viewed as a “coward”?). The more I think about it, the more strange this so called peace deal appears to become.
Btw – removing kaleo’s from the military and police will continue. Surely, you are not surprised by that?
@Proud Kale
I am so ashamed that you can justify killing of infant and children below 10 yrs and elderly women. no matter what unless its for self defence.. That land you are fighting for is now stained with innocent blood and will never ever help you… I awish all the IDPS in RV can just leave that land to Kales and see how far they will go with it… that land in now cursed!!!
I beleive if the issue was about land…the Kales shoulds have done it in abetter civilized way becouse killing innocent children window and elderly women take us back to 18th century and just show how unciviliized people are.. I pray that God may give them wisdom.
Eldoret international airport turned into Military base, Kenya army from Gilgil flies in WAR goodies….
@KE…How do you feel being this vindicated.
Guys it does not hurt looking at what the otherside is sayiny go to http://www.raila2007.wordpress.com Kaleo’s are flaming atii they are being hit from all sides, others believe ODM has been dubed again….recall Kibaki Tosha, this time Raila declared that Kibaki remains the President of Kenya.
PS.Muthaura clears the air on civil service jobs and ODM goes into a crisis meeting . WOW
Martha Karua states that ethnic “warriors” will be punished for the election violence, even as Raila ask for their pardon
This will be the most interesting week.
@ke and mzeiya
the operation in mt elgon was coming either way, word had been going around i rv of pending military action. You will be surprised at what info kales get b4 hand. hope u are comfortable to know that the kenyan millitary is 80% non-gema..kibaki knows it so should u.. kales care less about the dp position. are u forgetting that we had the presidency for 24 years??? what good did it bring in terms of development to kales..not much by the way.what we need devolution of power and major land reform. mark my words there is nothing u are going to do with kales.. we are ready for anything u plan..
proudkaleo:
what evidence do you have that the military is 80% non-gema?
You don’t need devolution of power. You need more education and a culture that embraces a strong work ethic – these two things will give you guys a chance at economic prosperity that is not tied to the illegal acquisition of other people’s land.
And no, we did not forget moi’s 24 year rule. It brought nothing to Kikuyu’s either, but they didn’t go hacking you up with pangas and burning down your houses. In fact, it is kalenjins who hacked down kikuyu’s in 1992 and 1997! what was your excuse then? that Moi wasn’t helping you and it was the Kikuyu’s fault?? Tell those Kaleo’s that no individual has ever hacked their wa y to wealth. You’ve been doing it for almost 15 years and have gotten nothing. At what point will you realize it’s not working out for you?
unlike the 2008 violence which was not pre-planned , the 92 and 97 clashes were state organized and financed by moi’s cronies who felt threated by multi-party politics. why do u think he was able to start them and end them as he wished. there have been several reports that have linked the moi regime with all the clashes we had in the 90’s including the likoni clashes. lets be realistic we need major land reform especially in coast, central and rv province coz a few individuals own way too much land.. the worst thing about all this is both PNU and ODM don’t have the guts to do it coz they know they are the majority land owners in kenya..
@proudkaleo,
please let us know how old you are, this is becouse you could be below 12yrs judging by your answers and source of pride.
@ProudKaleo
I agree with you on devolution. That will enable massive resource to flow to the regions and Regional Cities will emmerge (Unlike only Nairobi Now)
my question : am dying to hear from you
What MAJOR LAND REFORMS DO YOU HAVE IN MIND?
KE:
Please cant you see this Kalenjins have displaced over 400K persons permanently in RV over the 15yrs…Is that nothing…Most of those poor people have sold land to rich Kales for a song ? I said somewhere their plan is an attrition war: mark my words .Over 200K will leave RV permanently in 08 war alone: Where shall WE be in another 10yrs
Thanks
PROUDKALEO,
Ati ur excuse is Land reform?…lol… wacha wewe..why didn’t you bring this up with your Baba Moi for 24 years ?Now that you’re in the cold is when it’s convenient to all of a sudden have “land grievances”
I think the kales do not want any non Kale in RV. Why don’t you just man up and admit that instead of always giving us half baked excuses of sijui land reform, sijui Kibaki fired kales (who were grossly incompetent), sijui kales were leftout, etc.
and here you are chest thumping about how the army is 80% non gema? Moi took care of the army well with all the perks one gets for being in the army. Maybe that’s why ya’ll were always caught offguard by small somali shifta-coz u guys had grown fat and lazy.
I’ve always said it would serve kales better to put their “perceived” physical strength toward their medulla oblongata, you guys would be way ahead.
Proudkaleo:
Why are you so hung up on land? Those 19 year kaleo’s who are fighting are not going to make their living off the land. Those days are gone. Let me give you an example from my own personal observation:
I have 2 young cousins in Kenya, who after high school, realized that they had to find jobs to support themselves. So, a few years after high school, they decided to start a taxi company. They bought a small beat up car and started driving people around Nairobi and all over Kenya. In a few years, they were able to make enough money to pay off their car loan. They now have a 3 cars and they are about to pay off loan on their second car.
Their father is a small scale farmer in Nakuru, but my cousins have grown up in a different Kenya. They knew their economic future did not lie on that small farm in Nakuru. They’ve grown up with cell phones and internet cafe’s, and if you dumped them in New York they’d look like your typical African-American (with their haircuts and earrings, etc, etc).
Why aren’t those young kalenjins thinking like this? i.e. thinking about how they can earn a living in this changing, modernizing economy.
#KE
Like i have said earlier (Billionaire blog) PEASANT mentality will take Kenya Nowhere….Lets package ALL this people in Cities/Towns and the rest will follow. You must admit it takes more Moneywhise for Kale boys to be like your cousins..they grew deep in the bush…(sorry).
I have a Kikuyu Friend who sold off his land to a Kale 5yrs ago in Eld for 800K. (10 acres)..after yrs of expulsions and sleeping in Police Stations
This Kyuk invested this money in NRB ..opened a security firm (employes many Kale boys now). Now this chap takes home a cool 1.5M a month
I asked him later to make a comment…Unbeliavable he said I THANK THE KALE boys for evicting me..i had beeen an idiot for long..thanks again.
Think about this #proudkaleo and KE
Lord your view of things is gud. These days there are more better investments than just a parcel of land, in the R.Valley. I personally dont beleive that Land alone is a cool investment, especially in the Rift valley. Though land in nairobi and Central is more expensive, it has a better return in the Long run. I want to make monety in Safaricom and let these goond concentrate on land issies as i make money in the stock exchange. Thats my pastime hobby and it has paid. I thank the Kalle boys for making me loose the interst in investing in Rift valley, Other better opportunities have opened up so far. They can stay with their land, we can broker everything they produce, work less and earn more. After all, all brokers who understand the art of the deal in agricultural produce are kiuks!